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Post by jisidro on Jun 28, 2017 11:26:53 GMT
Ok,
We got the BE as we saw it when CID ended.
What can we do with it?
- Baldur1/Baldur2 in bones (Because Megalith is awesome unlike the other non-light, non-gargant Wolds )
- Krueger2 gives Fulcrum extra range, protection and perhaps accuracy. LOVES geomancy with the caveat that it cannot use Megs in tier and Wwrath is a trade between Druid’s Wrath and not a legal target for TK.
- Mohsar? I’m still in the Mohsar who? Phase.
- Tanith? She gets Loki in Bones and -2 DEF is a great help as well.
Here are a few of rough ideas, shoot them down and prop them up with your wisdom, hoping to get a discussion going.
[Theme] The Bones of Orboros
(Baldur 1) Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31]
- Megalith [20]
- Woldwrath [37]
2x - Woldwyrd [9]
- Druid Wilder [0(4)]
2x Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)]
Gallows Grove [2]
2x Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Celestial Fulcrum [19]
Shoot and prepare your feat to give the alpha to WWrath. You can go full heal by trading free solos for Wayfarers which I don’t like because hunter’s mark is great and because they have great synergy with Druid’s Wrath. You can pull a Wolwyrd off and buy 3 stoneshapers for Sprays galore.
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Circle Army - 74 / 75 points
[Theme] The Bones of Orboros
(Baldur 2) Baldur the Stonesoul [+30]
- Megalith [20]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwrath [37]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [3]
2x Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)]
2x Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
2x Shifting Stones [3]
Celestial Fulcrum [19]
What is this? A Wrath to contest and don’t go anywhere, Fulcrum to shoot, WWatcher to contest… This doesn’t look good tbh.
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(Krueger 2) Krueger the Stormlord [+27]
- Feral Warpwolf [18]
- Loki [19]
- Megalith [20]
2x - Woldwyrd [9]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Shifting Stones [3]
Celestial Fulcrum [19]
The usual character suspects. No solos “just” to get Megs and Loki.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Jun 28, 2017 13:32:53 GMT
Great post. I like these types of topics rather than a long form think session on changing our faction.
I played maybe 8 games with Mohsar and the cid battle engine. If you think of 2x wyrds and the battle engine as a package, they can take down a Khador heavy under curse of shadows by themselves. That list could have a 3rd wyrd and a woldwrath as the anchor. Along w sentry stones, shifting stones, gallows groves, and free solos.
A neat facet of this list is you can walk a wayfarer 2" from a shifting stone then jump fully within 12". There is no dopple bark, but sands of fate to apply curse and spraying or wacking a caster before launching woldwrath, fulcrum, and hopefully wyrd shots at it could be good. A little tough bc bones has so few living troops, but I actually like the combo of curse of shadows, druids wrath, and pow 14 crit knockdown shots from a pair of stone keepers.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Jun 28, 2017 14:10:07 GMT
I also really like the idea of Baldur 1 or 2, but would have to have someone explain to me why the battle engine is a good fit. Is chipping in a little damage on heavies, infantry removal, and a lot of fury management worth 19 points in those lists? It might be?
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Post by jisidro on Jun 28, 2017 14:21:48 GMT
Well Baldur1 is a good target for assassination. All I want to do with him is cast a forest and upkeep 2 spells (Stone Skin, Solid Ground) that leaves him with 2 fury, 3 with wilder which is much safer IMO. So Fulcrum starts by helping fury management on turns where you feel you might be killable.
( Why is he killable? He has a control area of 12" and must expose himself on a lot of situations and I much rather protect his troops with a Growth than himself so 3 transfers is usually enough to prevent all but the most solid of assassinations.)
With Baldur2 it's an ARM22 with a lot of immunities, if it gets to the late game perhaps it won't be killed.
Also, Fulcrum with 3 boosts can do a damage to most targets, he is an expensive Wyrd that helps you run other constructs and make your sprays better.
No comment on the lists? Changes?
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yak
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5 
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Post by yak on Jun 28, 2017 16:00:11 GMT
Ask not what you can do with the Fulcrum; ask what can the Fulcrum do for you. Boostable ranged attacks are nice. Fury management is nice. But the thi the Fulcrum does that no other thing in circle does? +1 to attack for blackclads. Melee, ranged, magic - the lot. That's big for Krueger2, Tabitha, Mohsar and druids. Yes, druids. If you haven't got your head around Mohsar yet, go read Dan Yount's excellent article about him. Dan had him in his ATC pairing with wormwood, and dropped Mohsar 4/5 times. And he had a Fulcrum pre-CID: Mohsar - Pureblood - Pureblood - Wild Argus - Wyrd - Wyrd Fulcrum Max Wolves + UA Bloodweavers Chef It's not a straightforward list, but it is seriously good, and it just got better with Mohsar getting more accurate. I might try and change it around a bit - put some druids in it. Yes druids are expensive per model, and so less attractive for Sands of Fate targets, but the cloudwall and knockdown/back plays very nicely in to Mohsar's game with thei shoots list. But seriously, go read this article: www.ghost-dice.com/articles/2017/5/3/the-great-mohsar-write-up-how-to-sands-of-fate-to-victory |
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 28, 2017 16:10:30 GMT
I'll partake in this Dojo.
I think The Fulcrum is great with all the listed casters.
Mohsar: Pillars for Protection, Curse for DPS buff, Mirage for threat extension. That and The Fulcrum gives Mohsar +1 to Rat and Fury for spell casting. (Rat 7 sprays and rat 9 Spells woohoo.) here is my list i have run to success,
Mohsar,
Woldwrath
2 Wyrds
Warden
Fulcrum
2 Wayfarers
Stoneshaper
2 Sentry Stones
gallows Grove
It really is surprisingly hard hitting. It also threats assasination at some odd angles thanks to Mirage and Mohsar a natural shenanigans. I've played it into beast and Jack Spam to good success. The warden is one of those things I keep wanting to change but don't know what to replace with. I could try to fit in a second fulcrum but don't really want to buy one haha. He did work for me in a game against Khador because a kidiak wiffed horribly against him.
The next one is Tanith: She has lots of fulcrum support in Def Debuff and a good arm Debuff. She also loves +1 to attack rolls as she normally does lots of work. Combined with woldwyrds and sentry stones and an anchor she can really do work.
Tanith:
Loki
Warden
Warden
Wyrd
Wyrd
Fulcrum
2 Shifting stones
2 Wayfarers
Stoneshapers
2 Sentry Stones
Gallows Grove
Wardens are still questionable, they die really easily and don't trade well (kind of debating on taking a Wrath) Everything else is teched around devuffing jarrassong and chipping away at the enemy. It is very good against certain lists but is struggles against anything with good shooting and the Wardens always feel like a weak point.
Lastly Baldur 1: He has a good protective Feat and Has a great spell to Geomancy out across the board. There is potential here but I haven't play tested it yet.
Baldur 1
Megs
Warden X2
Wyrd X2
Fulcrum
Stoneshaper X2
Wayfarer X2
Sentry Stone X2
Shifting Stones
That's 3 Fully Boosted Pow 13's, 7 Pow 12's that can be Boosted, a Pow 14 and a Pow 15 that can be Boosted plus some misc sprays. I haven't tried it yet but it seems pretty effective on paper.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Jun 28, 2017 18:00:07 GMT
I agree ur b2 list is a little wonky. I don't know mine is much better. If ur just skewing for boxes then maybe 2 woldwrath are better, but maybe the immunities of filcrums would be good too.
B2 (bones)
- woldwrath
- megalith
Fulcrum
Fulcrum
3x shapers (all free)
2x sentry stone
Won't crack armor but seems nasty with over 100 boxes of arm 23.
Edit: Nvm this is dumb. You don't come close to generating enough fury to feed Baldur and 2 fulcrums.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 28, 2017 18:00:57 GMT
The fulcrum can also let you go low on other fury support in a Brad list and give him something to hide behind.
(Thorle 1) Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver [+27]
- Woldwarden [16]
- Woldwarden [16]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [3]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [3]
Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)]
Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)]
Celestial Fulcrum [19]
But you know ... Brad ...
And a version that can score all zone in 2017:
(Thorle 1) Bradigus Thorle the Runecarver [+27]
- Woldwarden [16]
- Woldwarden [16]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
- Woldwatcher [9]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [0(3)]
Blackclad Stoneshaper [3]
Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)]
Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)]
Gallows Grove [2]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Sentry Stone & Mannikins [5]
Celestial Fulcrum [19]
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 28, 2017 18:15:38 GMT
What do you guys think about double fulcrum? Is there any play there, or is the combination of needing to fuel them with wolds, the difficulty of scoring circle zones in Sr2017, and the cost too much to make it worthwhile? I'm tossing around the idea of either Una2 hotswapping HoF or Baldur2 replacing a Woldwrath in the double woldwrath build with 2 fulcrums.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Jun 28, 2017 18:45:46 GMT
I think double fulcrum is a legit strategy with Tanith and perhaps Baldur 2, I also don't think it's absolutely necessary to run them in bones. The extra solos aren't necessarily worth losing out on the Pureblood and the Moonhound Argus.
Using the Shifting Stones in conjunction with the Fulcrum is also important. We are in a unique place as a faction because our battle engine can advance, shoot, and then get ported back out of harms way - this is a big deal and allows us to play for attrition with guns over many turns.
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Jun 28, 2017 18:52:18 GMT
I love the idea of advancing with any model then porting back, but do you find that ur shifting stones (at least one) gets killed when trying to set this up. The stones have to be upfield that turn before the shoot+shift occurs and they are stuck there after. I've gotten this to work with a stone keeper allowing them to spread way out and having them far enough back to barely catch the back of the fulcrums base, but a lot of the time a stone gets removed.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Jun 28, 2017 18:55:00 GMT
They don't actually have to be. The Battle engine can only advance 5 inches, which means that if he's all the way in the stones, he can't advance out of them completely. It's a positioning headache and takes some practice, but it's doable.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jun 28, 2017 18:56:30 GMT
I love the idea of advancing with any modelcthen porting back, but do you find that ur shifting stones (at least one) gets killed when trying to set this up. The stones have to be upfield that turn before the shoot+shift occurs and they are stuck there after. I've gotten this to work with a stone keeper allowing them to spread way out and having them far enough back to barely catch the back of the fulcrums base, but a lot of the time a stone gets removed. Hm. need to test it, but remember that you just have to have the back of the fulcrum's base touching the triangle to get teleported, so the stones can be 5" behind wherever the leading edge of the fulcrum was. I might even consider the stone keeper again, just to ensure I can spread the stones out enough to let a fulcrum walk between them. |
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Post by gordaunikus1 on Jun 28, 2017 19:04:05 GMT
They don't actually have to be. The Battle engine can only advance 5 inches, which means that if he's all the way in the stones, he can't advance out of them completely. Fair point and thanks. Definitely something to try. Dang it now I want to try another fulcrum. Can someone walk me through how a tannith list works? I understand w reeves for cra and pureblood for spray, but I don't understand how wyrds or fulcrum work w her Bc target has to be engaged to apply scything touch. I guess you could debuff defense first, but seems like a lot tovdocw 6 fury. Side note, admonition for a huge based shooting platform seems pretty cool. |
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 28, 2017 19:38:14 GMT
Admonition is battle group only.
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