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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 26, 2017 22:58:59 GMT
I was trying to be as unbiased as i can be in my statements but w/e. E-leap is still bs. Almost all other abilities that hit things nearby express for blast damage requires you to hit an enemy model to take effect. I don't understand why e-leap should get a free pass. They even made it so you can't throw your own models to cut down on you not having to hit the enemy. Yeah junior is a staple but do it seems that a bunch of cygnarans stuff is. Like the squire and rangers back on mk 2. But let's ignore that. I was merely pointing out that people would be less jelly of their faction had a nice option like that. . Caine 3 I'm just salty and i don't think the strategy just kill a def 17 caster is counterplay. Unlike you he cab actually hide from you. Other note Def 12 arm 18 is pretty survivable. With AS and some shields that skews pretty hard. You guys are understating the higher def.
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Post by pangurban on Jun 26, 2017 23:01:24 GMT
Having a handful of models or rules that could stand to be taken down a peg is hardly unique to Cygnar. It doesn't even put them in a minority.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 26, 2017 23:04:33 GMT
Having a handful of models or rules that could stand to be taken down a peg is hardly unique to Cygnar. It doesn't even put them in a minority. Wholeheartedly agree. If you're not willing to nerf your own faction then you is a butt. But that's just one opinion that i assume not everyone shares.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 26, 2017 23:10:04 GMT
I was trying to be as unbiased as i can be in my statements but w/e. E-leap is still bs. Almost all other abilities that hit things nearby express for blast damage requires you to hit an enemy model to take effect. I don't understand why e-leap should get a free pass. They even made it so you can't throw your own models to cut down on you not having to hit the enemy. Yeah junior is a staple but do it seems that a bunch of cygnarans stuff is. Like the squire and rangers back on mk 2. But let's ignore that. I was merely pointing out that people would be less jelly of their faction had a nice option like that. . Caine 3 I'm just salty and i don't think the strategy just kill a def 17 caster is counterplay. Unlike you he cab actually hide from you. Other note Def 12 arm 18 is pretty survivable. With AS and some shields that skews pretty hard. You guys are understating the higher def. 1. Yes, all effects except e-leaps and AOEs require hitting an enemy model. If e-leaps lose the ability to bounce off of friendlies, should AOEs not be able to drift? They stopped power attacks from hitting friendlies because of flying snake and butcher. 2. People being jealous or not has no grounds in this discussion. 3. Caine has def 17, sure. He also has arm 13. His unit members have arm 11. They die to blast. He can be knocked down. He can die. 4. In exchange for less boxes on all our jacks, and a support tax, Cygnar can buff 1 thing's armor. The defense is nice, but armor ia what keeps them alive.
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 26, 2017 23:10:22 GMT
To be fair, the krielstone also costs fury off of the warlock, and passage from choir does nothing into Ret, Circle and even some cygnar.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 26, 2017 23:10:59 GMT
I was trying to be as unbiased as i can be in my statements but w/e. E-leap is still bs. Almost all other abilities that hit things nearby express for blast damage requires you to hit an enemy model to take effect. I don't understand why e-leap should get a free pass. They even made it so you can't throw your own models to cut down on you not having to hit the enemy. Yeah junior is a staple but do it seems that a bunch of cygnarans stuff is. Like the squire and rangers back on mk 2. But let's ignore that. I was merely pointing out that people would be less jelly of their faction had a nice option like that. . Caine 3 I'm just salty and i don't think the strategy just kill a def 17 caster is counterplay. Unlike you he cab actually hide from you. Other note Def 12 arm 18 is pretty survivable. With AS and some shields that skews pretty hard. You guys are understating the higher def. E-Leap isn't the only function that ignores def. There are quite a bit into the game (Menoth just got some more as an example). Also, with Lances losing it on the ranged gun it will be a lot less abused. Again, I seem to see at least a great support staple in every faction but Khador (that as balance have models that start with over-averange stats to begin with) and Cryx (that works on debuffs and not on buffs), so I don't get the issue. DEF 12 and ARM 18 is fine in general, but you are ignoring the fact that they are below averange in hit boxes and they usually cost more than comparable jacks in other factions. Also, no DEF 12 heavy in Cygnar has Shield, at best some have a Buckler and they are the top (18-19 points) ones. Centurion has more ARM but less DEF and SPD than the averange Cygnar jack. On Caine3 I'm not going to argue, I admit that I didn't test the caster enough to talk about it.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 26, 2017 23:11:31 GMT
Having a handful of models or rules that could stand to be taken down a peg is hardly unique to Cygnar. It doesn't even put them in a minority. Wholeheartedly agree. If you're not willing to nerf your own faction then you is a butt. But that's just one opinion that i assume not everyone shares. We can nerf Cygnar. But only with good reason. Wanna take Storm Lances down a notch? Fine. Do it reasonably.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 26, 2017 23:11:32 GMT
"Is faction X overpowered" is a very general and usually loaded question, so I don't want to address that. However, I will agree that Cygnar's junior does rub me the wrong way. IIRC, for all the other factions, the buffs on their juniors are limited to battlegroup only, which creates a bit of a check on their power level. It's only Cygnar which has a junior capable of putting his buff on any target, including models/units, which can make for some very powerful interactions. Was he the first junior that PP came out with? Because it kind of shows. He's been around since Mk 1. If you are determined to make Arcane Shield Battlegroup only: 1. You'll have to make Arcane Shield on casters battlegroup only, meaning that Cygnar Infantry will need more buffs to see play 2. You'll need to up his FOCUS from 3 to 4 to match the others. 3. You'll need to give him better defensive stats or a piece of defensive tech like the others. 4. You'll need to radically look at the faction and see what else needs to change. There is no reason that Juniors buffs are battlegroup only.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 26, 2017 23:17:22 GMT
I didn't say he should be nerfed . I said other journey men should get on his level. But w/e nerf the guy. While you're at it nerf them all. Give them all foc 1 or 2 and a four cost spell. Let the world burn.
Anyways when I'm missing 30 percemt of my attacks because of def 12 i think you're plenty survivable but again w/e.
Also being there since mrk 1 didn't stop the vassal from getting nerfed.
Also idk what defense ignoring things you're taking about in the Protectorate. But admonisher and ashes to ashes if I'm not mistaken need to hit an enemy model first. And cataclysm no longer auto hits.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 26, 2017 23:17:52 GMT
To be fair, the krielstone also costs fury off of the warlock, and passage from choir does nothing into Ret, Circle and even some cygnar. That seems quite an overstatement... Like saying that since Naga exists JR does nothing (and what are the Cygnar lists that ignore Choir? Caine1?). And even if it was the case, choir still has two other great buffs that can give.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 27, 2017 0:24:28 GMT
I didn't say he should be nerfed . I said other journey men should get on his level. But w/e nerf the guy. While you're at it nerf them all. Give them all foc 1 or 2 and a four cost spell. Let the world burn. Anyways when I'm missing 30 percemt of my attacks because of def 12 i think you're plenty survivable but again w/e. Also being there since mrk 1 didn't stop the vassal from getting nerfed. Also idk what defense ignoring things you're taking about in the Protectorate. But admonisher and ashes to ashes if I'm not mistaken need to hit an enemy model first. And cataclysm no longer auto hits. No need to get testy. You're right, a model isn't immune to change even if it has been around from the beginning. Ashes to Ashes does not specify enemy model for the hit, but it only "arcs" to enemy models.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 27, 2017 0:41:49 GMT
Ashes to ashes should specify enemy IMO
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 27, 2017 0:59:35 GMT
Ashes to ashes should specify enemy IMO Should AOEs specify they can only target enemy models? And spells that slam/throw models? Should knockdown not result in auto hits? Should Nemo1 have to roll to hit models with his feat? How about Feora1? Grundback?
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Post by darkshroud on Jun 27, 2017 1:01:44 GMT
"I don't see many people complaining about the survivability crabjacks"
outside of levi, cryx dont use crabs. theyre too slow and suffer from jack of all trades syndrome.
they, pp, tried to fix them with aiakos's feat but then we look at stalkers and go...but why use crabs? bathroom is our go to jack bc 15 pts is amazing for him.
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 27, 2017 1:02:41 GMT
Feora1 does roll, she has a 1\3 chance for every model effected to have nothing happen
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