|
Post by WantonRanger on Jun 27, 2017 22:31:06 GMT
Anyway I better go buy 3 sets of bastions and 2 vessels so I can run an incredible healz interdiction force... That would be a bad idea, Bastions are only FA2. I'll just convert one set of into overweight knight errants
|
|
joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
|
Post by joedj on Jun 27, 2017 22:47:14 GMT
So I need to know, are VoJ's Admonisher hits, "Direct hits"? My Covenant of Menoth wants to know if Flames of Wrath ability should still be placed on a VoJ... Given that doesn't help my second VoJ. Oh well, I guess it'll be the points spent to support the first! #designspace --> Where's the Protectorate repair UNIT?!
|
|
|
Post by Andrivan on Jun 28, 2017 0:27:28 GMT
So I need to know, are VoJ's Admonisher hits, "Direct hits"? My Covenant of Menoth wants to know if Flames of Wrath ability should still be placed on a VoJ... Given that doesn't help my second VoJ. Oh well, I guess it'll be the points spent to support the first! #designspace --> Where's the Protectorate repair UNIT?! No, they're just hits. Only the initial attack, if it hits is a direct hit. The secondary ones aren't even attacks as far as I know.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Jun 28, 2017 16:25:58 GMT
Yeah, Admonisher bounces are not attacks at all. They're just damage rolls.
And the Interdiction theme force isn't terrible. It's just abjectly mediocre as you point out.
|
|
Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
|
Post by Provengreil on Jun 28, 2017 22:57:29 GMT
Yeah, Admonisher bounces are not attacks at all. They're just damage rolls. And the Interdiction theme force isn't terrible. It's just abjectly mediocre as you point out. I actually find it fairly powerful. It's just flat, and only has anything to do with exemplars because it says so. As for vessel, it stings a bit but I like it. We complained several times about it not feeling very good as a support engine, just a really good gun that occasionally cosplayed a castigator or whatever. They gave us a better version of the lost miracle as the second half of the new healing one and added the much requested out of formation clause to doors. It heals, dispels, gives extra attacks, and lights local fires for our army. Add that to a gun that still measures up, and I think it's still a solid piece.
|
|
|
Post by Wibble on Jun 29, 2017 9:47:55 GMT
Yeah, Admonisher bounces are not attacks at all. They're just damage rolls. And the Interdiction theme force isn't terrible. It's just abjectly mediocre as you point out. I actually find it fairly powerful. It's just flat, and only has anything to do with exemplars because it says so. As for vessel, it stings a bit but I like it. We complained several times about it not feeling very good as a support engine, just a really good gun that occasionally cosplayed a castigator or whatever. They gave us a better version of the lost miracle as the second half of the new healing one and added the much requested out of formation clause to doors. It heals, dispels, gives extra attacks, and lights local fires for our army. Add that to a gun that still measures up, and I think it's still a solid piece. What about the list is powerful? 2" of extra deployment or blessed weapons on the jacks you don't take... Vindictus makes it powerful, with little to no input from the theme and basically is the only person worth running it... And the VoJ does all those above things by killing itself so I feel that it should be better than "solid" as the other engines get all the good stuff without the self-crippling balance
|
|
joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
|
Post by joedj on Jun 29, 2017 13:52:05 GMT
What about the list is powerful? 2" of extra deployment or blessed weapons on the jacks you don't take... Vindictus makes it powerful, with little to no input from the theme and basically is the only person worth running it... And the VoJ does all those above things by killing itself so I feel that it should be better than "solid" as the other engines get all the good stuff without the self-crippling balanceMy Storm Strider, AFG, Fulcrum, and TEP all agree with this
|
|
|
Post by Wibble on Jun 29, 2017 14:30:52 GMT
What about the list is powerful? 2" of extra deployment or blessed weapons on the jacks you don't take... Vindictus makes it powerful, with little to no input from the theme and basically is the only person worth running it... And the VoJ does all those above things by killing itself so I feel that it should be better than "solid" as the other engines get all the good stuff without the self-crippling balanceMy Storm Strider, AFG, Fulcrum, and TEP all agree with this The storm strider basically is faster, has better range, gets 3x admonisher potentially per turn (2x ranged and 1x Melee) without paying for reload and additionally gets free boosts if it moves, while providing an aura for other lightning weapons. It has 4 less life. Am I supposed to believe that a non-functional healing talent for medium infantry and a dispel that during CID did almost nothing because someone would just take a few damage and continue to sit at the back of the field, makes up for basically gifting my opponent 18 points of my army by killing myself to be a less powerful storm strider... doors of judgement was about the only functional thing in CID, eruption of faith never happened.... just sigh
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jun 29, 2017 14:54:35 GMT
You do know that the healing effect on bonds works on warjacks and warcasters, right?
|
|
|
Post by W0lfBane on Jun 29, 2017 17:24:33 GMT
You do know that the healing effect on bonds works on warjacks and warcasters, right? Nom nom nom tasty healing for harbinger. Nom
|
|
|
Post by chillychinaman on Jun 29, 2017 17:50:27 GMT
You do know that the healing effect on bonds works on warjacks and warcasters, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the current "overall meta," to kill things dead, making most healing pointless? I can understand healing incidental damage from slams and non-assassination attempt spells, but when people are throwing at least 2+ heavies or weapon master infantry at targets to ensure their destruction, healing after the fact doesn't add much.
|
|
spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
|
Post by spideredd on Jun 29, 2017 18:19:23 GMT
You do know that the healing effect on bonds works on warjacks and warcasters, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the current "overall meta," to kill things dead, making most healing pointless? I can understand healing incidental damage from slams and non-assassination attempt spells, but when people are throwing at least 2+ heavies or weapon master infantry at targets to ensure their destruction, healing after the fact doesn't add much. The current meta is to try to kill things dead in one turn. It doesn't always succeed thanks to buffs, positioning and bad dice. With our shields and shield guard and choir, the healing might just make the warjack stick around for that extra turn that it otherwise wouldn't. That's the theory at least. I'm going to try it out.
|
|
Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
|
Post by Cyel on Jun 29, 2017 18:29:59 GMT
I call it repair aura, because it affects jacks mostly in my games. It is very handy to return crippled systems easily and two VoJ can not only repair twice the damage, but also do it "for free" (on average), because they also repair each other.
It is an extremely useful ability.
|
|
|
Post by greytemplar on Jun 29, 2017 18:54:58 GMT
Fixing jacks makes the healing aura worthwhile. Is true that the goal most of the time is to one round targets, but protectorate has some things that can can prevent that.
The real sad thing is that PP somehow thinks that the healing aura helps medium infantry. Since they definitely don't survive alpha strikes to hit back. Old bastions would make good use of it of course. But not new bastions or cinerators.
|
|
|
Post by Wibble on Jun 29, 2017 19:09:28 GMT
You do know that the healing effect on bonds works on warjacks and warcasters, right? it's too niche... as explained by the above posts... rarely will anything be left alive (just like medium infantry) for this to be relevant. Yeah if an opponent leaves a jack just alive then this would be excellent but how often is this relevant???. Even with the methods you have described it's very very NICHE. And taking 2 battle engines is the wrong way of thinking to make a support piece viable... Harbinger is the only Warcaster who really benefits from healing as synergy. Other warcasters are either getting assassinated or not assassinated... no -one slowly chips away at a warcaster by like 1-3 damage per turn... except for us with this Miracle taking down enemy upkeeps. The solid ability is Doors of Judgement. The rest are niche and it upsets me that we seem to be being costed extra for niche support options and additionally self-flagellation flavour...which is a disadvantage mechanically... Our battle engine being as good as others doesn't cut it when we have an extra huge downside which requires extra points for mechaniks (on top of the 18) to keep it alive for longer than a turn once it gets in range... which don't ya know is closer than most of the other ranged engines as well... oh and we are slower... not even surprised anymore. I know it's not terrible but the baseline for Menoth is not particularly high. The boosted Admonisher secured the damage before the engine's inevitable demise... in practicality the gun is the most useful part of the engine by a long way...
|
|