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Post by borderprince on Jun 19, 2017 9:28:35 GMT
I just wanted to agree to the writeup borderprince made: as we have a few new players, I played Kozlov during several BattleBox-games during the last months and he is a very good pick to learn the game. Very straigthforward, intuitive spells and if things get hot, he can also get some work done on himself with his axe. But one thing I always felt is that he lacks focus or some mean to fuel up his jacks. Latest when you get a third jack in his battlegroup, you are either standing there without any focus left, or you cannot upkeep all your spells and fuel up your jacks. I liked having a Marauder in his battle group - power-up Focus to charge or boost to hit, then combo-smite. It's not in the list as a big beater, but as a utility piece that can be a serious threat to more or less anything if your other jacks are gone and you cast Fury on it. You can have the same sort of approach with a Kodiak, with the purpose of getting the chain attack off. Ditching the Decimator (which really wants at least two Focus) is also a good idea. For what it's worth, my final list at the end of the Journeyman League was: Kozlov - Juggernaut - Juggernaut - Marauder Max MoW ST + Officer Max Uhlans Widowmakers Min Mechaniks MoW Kovnik Widowmaker Marksman Kell Bailoch Ragman This was pre-theme lists (mostly) and it's not great in lists with lots of ARM debuffs (i.e. Cryx) or incorporeal, but I thought it was solid for everything else. It's really a scenario/attrition list (my preferred styles of play). There's some movement shenanigans with two units with reform, pathfinder on Uhlans and jacks. It's great in a grind - even heavies often need two attacks to take out a single MoW especially on feat turn. Most anti-infantry shooting just scratches the paint on the MoW, Jacks and Uhlans and few lists have the volume of high POW shots to reduce the hitting power of the list dramatically before the lines engage. Ragman + MoW ST is a match made in heaven, both giving them P+S16 and using their reach to spread Dark Shroud further to buff the hitting power of the jacks, while he Sac Pawns to high ARM models to stay alive. The shooting is fairly token, but this was in the days when every Legion list included at list one Hellmouth. 7 sniper shots a turn was good for dealing with that and is at least a nuisance against almost everything else. It was sometimes worth shooting into melee to try and clear out jamming models - the MoW/Uhlans could take a single damage point and keep going, when the jamming model couldn't.
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Post by blindfury on Jun 19, 2017 21:50:03 GMT
Hey Fury! I really like your writeup, but I'm wondering why you are sacrificing movement or action with steady? Unless the knockdown effect happened during the same turn you're activating your model with steady, you don't have to sacrifice anything. You just don't get knocked down. Huh, I wrote that a long time ago back when throw chains were a thing. Thanks, text amended;)
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jun 20, 2017 0:45:05 GMT
No worries buddy!
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Post by KingoftheNorth on Jun 18, 2018 14:23:57 GMT
I love this dude (shocking, I know)! Since Mark 3 battle boxes dropped, Kozlov has been my go to man o war dude. my list was (and still is): Kozlov Juggernaut Juggernaut Juggernaut Decimator Mow w CA x2 Mow Kovnik x2 I dropped this list into everything short of Cryx, and I always had a fun game that never felt outmatched. I dropped it into ret double colossal and almost won during a team tourney. The only issue was my placing. Heck, I dropped it into Haley 2 and it slapped her around like crazy! Between the speed, armour, and hitting power it's one of my favourite mk3 lists to play. God you're still around...
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 18, 2018 16:35:49 GMT
Every time I put kozlov on the table I feel like he's way too FOCUS strapped and ends up being pretty passive. He has 3 upkeeps and really wants to trade at least 1 of them around, which ends up taking all his focus every turn, so he just sits in the back.
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Jun 28, 2018 15:52:40 GMT
I love this dude (shocking, I know)! Since Mark 3 battle boxes dropped, Kozlov has been my go to man o war dude. my list was (and still is): Kozlov Juggernaut Juggernaut Juggernaut Decimator Mow w CA x2 Mow Kovnik x2 I dropped this list into everything short of Cryx, and I always had a fun game that never felt outmatched. I dropped it into ret double colossal and almost won during a team tourney. The only issue was my placing. Heck, I dropped it into Haley 2 and it slapped her around like crazy! Between the speed, armour, and hitting power it's one of my favourite mk3 lists to play. God you're still around... You bet I am!
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Post by goodk4t on Jun 28, 2018 20:10:36 GMT
Hmm, he really looks interesting. You could argue that he doesnt need ST UA's and has enough speed and armor cracking to be viable... Its no tricks (Khador style) but plain efficient. Only concern is do i need to pay the atanas tax for tactician? Chosen ground answers a lot of questions and fury enables ST and Kodiaks to do some work. i would like "some" shooting like a strike tanker/decimator or you ditch the demos/atanas and go for Bombardiers with UA (which with fury are ok as well) plus kayazy elims/ragman?!
War Room Army
Khador - Kozlov
Theme: Armored Corps 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Lord Kozlov, Viscount of Scarsgrad - WJ: +28 - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Juggernaut - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Suppression Tanker - PC: 0 Man-O-War Kovnik - PC: 4 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 4
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard - Arconovich & Standard Bearer: 7 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Man-O-War Shocktroopers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 16 Man-O-War Demolition Corps - Leader & 4 Grunts: 14 - Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - PC: 0 Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3
THEME: Armored Corps ---
GENERATED : 06/28/2018 22:03:15 BUILD ID : 2067.18-06-10
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 28, 2018 20:47:48 GMT
He really wants the ST UAs. They're worth it just for the extra body to hit with Fury, but the abilities he brings really make then shine.
I think you've misunderstood Chosen Ground; it's Battlegroup only, and as such you will sometimes find you need either Atanas or Saxon for the Pathfinder.
I remain unconvinced that Dragos is even slightly worth it. Fury on the Demo Corps puts them into 'flatten a colossal' territory without him, so I'd rather keep the unit cheap. A Strike Tanker is an excellent addition for Grievous Wounds, reasonably reliable damage, and a really tough flag camper.
I went Jugger double Marauder for Jacks. You can get pathfinder on a stick, and the Marauder gets more done without extra focus, which is going to be a real consideration.
The speed is pretty incredible. You have to throw a lot of resources at it, but you can get to the far side of zones with the Shocktroopers in Shield Wall.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 28, 2018 21:58:22 GMT
He really wants the ST UAs. They're worth it just for the extra body to hit with Fury, but the abilities he brings really make then shine. I think you've misunderstood Chosen Ground; it's Battlegroup only, and as such you will sometimes find you need either Atanas or Saxon for the Pathfinder. I remain unconvinced that Dragos is even slightly worth it. Fury on the Demo Corps puts them into 'flatten a colossal' territory without him, so I'd rather keep the unit cheap. A Strike Tanker is an excellent addition for Grievous Wounds, reasonably reliable damage, and a really tough flag camper. I went Jugger double Marauder for Jacks. You can get pathfinder on a stick, and the Marauder gets more done without extra focus, which is going to be a real consideration. The speed is pretty incredible. You have to throw a lot of resources at it, but you can get to the far side of zones with the Shocktroopers in Shield Wall. I know he is expensive but Dragos just totally helps with the threat extension. When you have band of brothers up (and have him sufficiently back) you are almost guaranteed to trigger vengeanance.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 28, 2018 22:42:00 GMT
Well, yeah, that's his thing. I just don't think that's worth almost the cost of another unit of Demo Corps.
Don't mind me, though; I'm just generally down on him as I think he's poorly designed. He tries to shore up weaknesses, and I would rather he played to strengths. (Also, every time I see him I just wish he was a Shocktrooper UA with those abilities!)
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Post by borderprince on Jun 29, 2018 8:05:04 GMT
He really wants the ST UAs. They're worth it just for the extra body to hit with Fury, but the abilities he brings really make then shine. I think you've misunderstood Chosen Ground; it's Battlegroup only, and as such you will sometimes find you need either Atanas or Saxon for the Pathfinder. ... I went Jugger double Marauder for Jacks. You can get pathfinder on a stick, and the Marauder gets more done without extra focus, which is going to be a real consideration. The speed is pretty incredible. You have to throw a lot of resources at it, but you can get to the far side of zones with the Shocktroopers in Shield Wall. Just to confirm how great the ST UAs are with Kozlov. Kozlov lets the STs work really well in scenario - they can get into zones (even the far side) while in Shieldwall. If they can't be pushed or knocked down, they are very hard to shift without considerable effort on your opponent's part.
I've not found pathfinder is that essential for the warriors, if you're using Chosen Ground on the jacks.
I'd also agree that Juggernaut + 2 Marauders is I think his best minimal battlegroup at the moment (swapping Marauders for Kodiaks works if you have points spare - not so good vs huge bases, but Vent Steam can be golden). Kozlov can't run a demanding battlegroup; he just doesn't have the Focus to do it without losing some of his other valuable abilities. Marauders do well on just the power-up focus and play into the scenario aspect of his game plan - combo-smite models out of the zone.
After the discussion people had somewhere about min Bombardier+UA being a decent choice, I've been running:
Kozlov
-Juggernaut
-Kodiak
-Marauder
Max ST + UA
Max ST + UA
Min Demo-Corps (late-game hitters/anti-huge base)
Min Bombardiers + UA
Kovnik
Strike Tanker
Suppression Tanker
Ragman
It's got about enough shooting to threaten things. But Kozlov does nothing for shooting, so the shooting models are more on anti-solo/clearing charge lane duty much of the time. Scenario play is very good. Min Demo Corps and Bombardiers has helped to reduce movement issues, which has been nice and meant Atanas hasn't been too great of an absence.The smaller units are more vulnerable, but the min units are meant to lag behind the much tougher STs
The anti-ARM ability is very impressive and flexible. You can end up with one unit of P+S16 STs, one unit of P+S17 STs and the unit of Demo Corps. Or you can stack Ragman and Fury if required (at which point the min Demo Corps + Strike Tanker can potentially drop a colossal in one turn, more or less on average dice - getting to around 53-7 damage on ARM 19/20).
Major absences are a min unit of mechaniks and another Kovnik (people are wise to how important he is to the scenario side of the list).
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 29, 2018 8:28:11 GMT
Why on earth would you take min bombardiers with UA? Seems like a colossal waste of 15 points.
You don't need another Kovnik with Kozlov. It's nice to have, but you really don't need it thanks to the theme benefits and Tactical Supremacy.
Fully on board the Ragman + Damage buff train; I use it with Irusk2, and it's great. But you need to watch out for pathfinder issues.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 29, 2018 9:42:04 GMT
Why on earth would you take min bombardiers with UA? Seems like a colossal waste of 15 points. You don't need another Kovnik with Kozlov. It's nice to have, but you really don't need it thanks to the theme benefits and Tactical Supremacy. Min Bombardiers + UA give:
(1) a little bit of pathfinder for the units. Not usually for aggression, but sometimes to just deny space - advancing a unit of Bombardiers into a forest can be a good scenario play in that it denies a good hiding place/scenario location to an opponent. It's one reason (Kodiak is another) why I'm not too fussed about pathfinder for the rest of the list;
(2) some (fairly flexible) shooting that is reasonably accurate and not dependent on Focus (and contributes to theme benefits). They've been generally useful for:
(a) sniping out support models - arcing fire means they have a particular niche for this;
(b) clearing charge lanes - I think AK lists need some shooting to make sure the expensive models get where they need to go. Tankers can do this too, so not unique to Bombardiers; (c) removing that one annoying model that is still in a zone but out of melee reach.
I've found the min unit a better option than more Demo Corps and I prefer them to just having the Tankers as my shooting, but I can see the arguments the other way (and if I didn't have one of each tanker in the list anyway, I tink the tankers might win out). A big plus for me has been that late game it's been handy to have their melee potential. Not the plan with them, but it's nice to have around if required.
And I still miss 2 Kovniks. I know they're not required, but they are very nice to have.Partly as mine should a bulls eye painted on him by now, partly as it's nice to have the option to hot swap Tac Supremacy and have both ST units moving fast up the board.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jun 29, 2018 11:30:16 GMT
What you've just listed are the benefits of any shooting whatsoever, plus pseudo-pathfinder.
You could for example take the Assault Chariot. It's cheaper, faster, tougher, as accurate, has weaker shots but larger, more powerful blasts. It has a more useful melee presence, a longer threat range, can end a turn further from what it's been shooting thanks to reposition. It has perpetual pathfinder and cannot be slammed or pushed.
It's better at chaff-clearing due to the larger, stronger blasts. It's better at solo hunting because of its maneuverability and Dual Attack. It's better at scenario because it's tougher, faster, and immovable (almost)
The advantage of the Bombardiers is that the smaller bases are easier to deal with, and they have stronger shots. But P14 output is not exactly difficult for a MoW list anyway.
And bear in mind, people regard the Assault Chariot as pretty rubbish.
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Post by jonnyboy on Jun 29, 2018 12:32:14 GMT
What you've just listed are the benefits of any shooting whatsoever, plus pseudo-pathfinder. You could for example take the Assault Chariot. It's cheaper, faster, tougher, as accurate, has weaker shots but larger, more powerful blasts. It has a more useful melee presence, a longer threat range, can end a turn further from what it's been shooting thanks to reposition. It has perpetual pathfinder and cannot be slammed or pushed. It's better at chaff-clearing due to the larger, stronger blasts. It's better at solo hunting because of its maneuverability and Dual Attack. It's better at scenario because it's tougher, faster, and immovable (almost) The advantage of the Bombardiers is that the smaller bases are easier to deal with, and they have stronger shots. But P14 output is not exactly difficult for a MoW list anyway. And bear in mind, people regard the Assault Chariot as pretty rubbish. I disagree on a couple points you've made. You say the engine is tougher. The BE has more armor sure, but even a min+UA bombadiers has more HP and on more than a single model. Pathfinder is an interesting discussion. With the UA the unit will rarely need actual pathfinder. They can advance and have pathfinder. But what if you want to charge, no pathinder. Well, if the enemy models are within your measly 10" threat range ( with kovnik ), i would rather aim and use the mini feat. Same RAT/MAT if aiming and double the shots. They are better at holding a zone. They can toe the zone and threat anyone else that tries to do the same. They are much harder to pick off than a single BE. Also, kozlov has a great spell for them, Tactical supremecy. I have experience with repo'ing my bombadiers with irusk, and wow it is great. Makes the unit way more obnoxious to deal with. They can shoot you, and to retaliate you will need to most likely enter into their mini feat threat. I do use a max+UA and maybe that's the tipping point for them.
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