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Post by streetpizza on Jun 22, 2017 14:06:41 GMT
Cool thread. I'm about to make the switch from ALL THE KREOSS!!!! to ALL THE FEORA!!! for the league I'm participating in/running: Campaign Link: Battle for the MarchesBasic story thread there being that Kreoss went North to punish the Skorne after their attack on the protectorate and now that he's had some success, Feora wants in on the action. I'm thinking of leading with this as a list for Feora1: Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Guardians of the Temple (Feora 1) Feora, Priestess of the Flame [+31] - Devout [9] - Hand of Judgment [18] - Sanctifier [14] - Vigilant [9] Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [0(5)] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [3] Vassal of Menoth [3] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Daughters of the Flame [10] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Flameguard Cleansers (max) [15] - Flameguard Cleanser Officer [0(4)] Plan is to play Feora very aggressively mid field to provide her veteran leader to the Flameguard and threaten a good feat turn. I'm also considering dropping 1 mechanic so that I can upgrade the Sanctifier to a Guardian to help get ignite over to the flame bringers when required but with Cryx heading into my territory (campaign) I'm thinking I need the ability to drop incorporeal.
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Post by paradox on Jun 22, 2017 16:20:18 GMT
I feel a bit of support bloat there, and Id be tempted to cut all the vassal solos for 8 more points. That could br a dervish, and you keep a fixer. Or make sanctifier the Avatar and maybe drop a wrack to squeeze a vassal in. When vs incorp, wall of fire is a Spell, as is blazing effigy.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 22, 2017 19:00:47 GMT
I feel a bit of support bloat there, and Id be tempted to cut all the vassal solos for 8 more points. That could br a dervish, and you keep a fixer. Or make sanctifier the Avatar and maybe drop a wrack to squeeze a vassal in. When vs incorp, wall of fire is a Spell, as is blazing effigy. Avatar isn't available in Guardians of the Temple though. You find 16pts of a 106pt list to be support bloat? I understand it looks daunting when you see that many entries but they're all small pt investments. Without the availability of the heirophant in guardians I use vassals to make up the focus efficiency. This ensures that Feora can do what she needs to with spells without having to sacrifice survivability to fuel jacks. The sanctifier also takes some of that load off but I'd deffinitely cut a point or two here and there to make him a templar, guardian or reckoner. Deffinitely think cutting all 8 pts is bit much and harms list efficiency. In MKII people used 10pts as the marker for support bloat. I've always translated that to a 20pt support max in MKIII before I start getting antsy about it. Guardians also limits what my solo options are so filling those points with anything but jack support becomes problematic. Testing will tell though. I may be back here in a week or two lamenting how right you were.
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Post by paradox on Jun 28, 2017 2:07:29 GMT
Put in another game today. Still the original list in Stand Off ve Saeryn/Rhyas2 in Oracles. He had Zuriel, seraph, couple angels, raek, naga, bloodseer, couple hellions, forsaken, BFS. Something like that. He won first and got into a strong position. There are alot of really long threats, so I stay conservative, except one angel gets way upfield, so rev gets 3 and Nicia gets Ignite. I land 2 lightbringers at 14", one boosted damage. Angel has 12 left. Nicia whiffs both swings. Flame bringers come to center to cover.
He Mark for Deaths FBs and drops them. Angel does 1/3 to HoJ, dropping move and left arm. Twins are upfield pretty strong.
I heal HoJ from the objective. Feora sprays and rev punches angel 1 to death. Feora feats to set Zuriel on fire. HoJ gets Ignite and kills Zuriel. Daughters ambush and kill the right hellion.
His forsaken bombs 4 daughters. Angel 2 finishes HoJ. Rhyas builds a fort midfield with a building, bloodseer, BFS, and angel. Left hellion gets in no shoot range of rev far on my left. Raek kills my objective.
Here I get dumb. I run vigilant into Rhyas fort. Rev walks and punches raek rolls feally low and leaves it alive, whiffs hellion. Feora double Blazing Effigies the fort. Devout kills raek. The transfers have his BG in tatters, but Feora has no focus. Rhyas seals the deal.
I really miss the hierophant in theme. Alot. I was too greedy here. Should have swung left and Effigied Rev twice to guarantee kill the hellion and raek. That would for e Rhyas and angel to commit if he wants to kill rev, and Feora gets to live.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 29, 2017 14:38:44 GMT
Got in a game with the list I posted up above vs Legion. My opponent brought "the new hotness" after the battle engine update and it looked like this: Kryssa [Oracles] - Archangel - Archangel Throne Throne Hellion Hellion Forsaken Forsaken My List: (Feora 1) Feora, Priestess of the Flame [+31] - Devout [9] - Hand of Judgment [18] - Sanctifier [14] - Vigilant [9] Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [0(5)] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [3] Vassal of Menoth [3] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Daughters of the Flame [10] Flame Bringers (max) [17] Flameguard Cleansers (max) [15] - Flameguard Cleanser Officer [0(4)] So right off the bat this was going to be an interesting game as we both had some really good counters to each other's tricks. The thrones have snacking which would prevent all soul collection on the sanctifier coupled with chain weapons to ignore the shields on on the vigilant. The archangels shoot and scoot is perfectly capable of keeping them out of charge range of the flamebringers. On my end my heavies and caster are immune to fire which protects against angel shots so I can sing for shielding all game long to prevent the thrones from maximizing their damage. Ambush will help keep him focused on the back line allowing my front line to do work. The cleansers can't be shot by the angels. I am absolutely out threat ranged everywhere though so I'm going to have to eat the alpha some how. I win the roll off and elect to go first to prevent being jammed out of scoring since I see scenario as my primary win condition. Seriously how do you dig through that many huge bases to a caster behind a forest? My opponent chooses the side with more forest cover for Kryssa since the rest of his army doesn't care about the terrain. Turn 1 running looks like this: My flame bringers took the rubble on the left with jacks and support moving up the center and cleansers on the right. Opponents formation straight up the center was Angel-Throne-Throne-Angel with Kryssa and support behind. Turn 2 my daughters ambush in the back right corner and kill a forsaken. This turned out to be the game winning move as the angel on that side and the throne had to jump through hoops to stay relavent with the cleansers while dealing with the daughters. The two forsaken also moved to deal with the daughters (high def rocks!). I baited in the left throne with the vigilant figuring it could tank the damage at arm 21 but chain strike quickly showed me how wrong I was and I lost the light but it did what I needed pulling in the battle engine. Shielding protects my battle group and back line from the throne so I also ended up losing 5 cleansers to a spray and eruption of spines. Nicia got a good charge in on the right angel but bit the dust to a throne attack triggering one of the sprays to kill cleansers. The left angel moved up and shot one flame bringer and re positionedinto the forest completing the wall of huge bases. This was his big mistake as it gave my jacks a chance to attack. Turn 3 my jacks clear the left angel and Feora feats to light Kryssa the objective and a throne on fire only narrowly missing the second forsaken. The jacks also managed to put some damage on the left throne along with an assault from the cleansers which also did some mild damage to the angel. The flame bringers moved into the trench and I score the left zone. 1-0 My opponent's turn starts and none of the fire goes out putting some plinking damage on the big guys, 2 to the objective and a big damage roll on Kryss transferred to the angel. He then brought the left throne over to the left zone and removes half of the Hand's health. Kryssa feats and moves in to kill the sanctifier and quick moves (Hordes version of velocity?) back to behind the objective. The right throne finishes the Hand, puts some damage on the objective and kills some cleansers while the right angel comes back to the zone and clears some cleansers in melee. His hellions move back towards the left zone. Critical on this turn was that both thrones had to eat cleanser free strikes and on the left one sanctifier free strike while positioning allowing me to do some extra damage. Turn 4 I fully buff the Devout who, between battle and ignite reaches P+S 17, and send him in on the angel. He and the two remaining cleansers they finish the job. On the left Feora maneuvers around the forest into the zone and between her boosted flame thrower damage and the flame bringers I manage to take down the left throne with attacks to spare. The right throne is still in the right zone so I only score on the left going to 2-0. After fire damage rolls (nothing goes out) his objective goes down to 10 health and Kryssa takes 6 damage with nowhere to transfer and the throne takes nothing. The left throne moves to attack the remaining cleansers and the devout. He fails to kill the devout leaving it fully operational but he eruptions my remaining cleansers. Some other back line support also dies. The hellions charge the flame bringers killing two of them and contesting the zone. 2-0 Turn 5 Feora moves into the zone and uses her flame throwers to kill one hellion and damage the other allowing the last two flame bringers to finish the job and kill the last forsaken. The remaining choir members move towards the right zone hoping to score later and the Devout puts damage on the throne leaving it on 21 boxes (damn those things have a lot of health between arm 20 and snacking!) I score the left zone again 3-0 My opponent now has a tough decision as Feora has 0 focus and is walking range of the throne but out of line of sight so he can't charge. We do the math and a melee assassination from the throne is 37%. He elects to try and finish the devout while contesting the left zone but he wiffs the first attack roll and then changes gears to kill a flame bringer and the objective. The throne uses it's spell to kill another choir member leaving one to contest the right zone but another alive out of the zone meaning I can't score. Kryssa charges the devout eating the defensive strike for some damage but kills it then velocities into the right zone. 3-1 Feora goes full bore on the throne popping engine of destruction and between her and the last flame bringer I kill it meaning I score on the left. The choir runs into the right zone scoring there as well. 5-1 Kryssa is now out of options and kills the choir making it 6-2 but turn time runs out on turn seven and its scenario point victory for the protectorate. This game was a total grind finishing with only four models left on the table (Feora, flame bringer, wrack, and Kryssa). Happy to say the list played the way I wanted even into something that wasn't a great match up. Dice rolls tilting just a little bit in my opponents direction would've made this his game though as leaving an AA or a throne alive at any time I managed to kill them would've been disastrous. The mechanics did nothing all game as I was loath to bring them up front to give the thrones something to snack on and trigger battle wizard for free so not their best game to shine but I'm not willing to write them off yet. The vassals were clutch giving out focus at the right times and enlivening turn 1 making him loath to attack my heavies. I'll try to get 2 or 3 more games in before tweaking the list. After this Feora 3 absolutely roasted some cryx so it was a really good day to praise Menoth!
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jun 30, 2017 1:50:14 GMT
I had a game last night against the Trencher theme. Doors of Judgment a Cleanser, who cleared the way for Hand of Judgment to run up to Hailey 3 and then Feora ended the game with a double POW 15 Blazing Effigy thanks to his bonus
Blazing Effigy and HOJ are such an awesome combo
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Post by paradox on Jun 30, 2017 2:01:23 GMT
Blazing Effigy and HOJ are such an awesome combo Truth
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 5, 2017 6:29:33 GMT
Nice thread here! I've been a fan of Feora1 since I started the game, though I do not play Menoth right now.
Well, what about Feora in the Exemplars theme? She herself offers some crowd control, while the Exemplars and her battlegroup do the ARM cracking.
Might this be a good idea? Or will there be a lack of synergy without cleansers or flameguard in general?
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 5, 2017 12:48:04 GMT
I could definitely see Feora 1 or 3 in the exemplar theme. I'm not currently testing it as the fluff demands of my campaign have her in Guardians of the Temple.
The only thing she's missing to truly turn up the heat on the interdiction is some kind of armor buff. I've found when playing the exemplar lists that armor buffing the vengers is pretty crucial. Both Feora 1 and 3 will dial the hitting power of the vengers and knights up a notch but if you can't deliver them then its meaningless. This is part of why she works so well in Guardians. She covers the weakness of most flameguard models, which is damage dealing, with either ignite or incite and the natural survivability of the flame guard covers her lack of a defensive buff.
For what I'm talking about here lets look at a summary:
- Cleansers bring ashenvale to buff their abysmal defense to acceptable and use a very long threat range on the assault + mini feat to make sure they hit first anyway. - Daughters are stealthed and are typically ambushing - Temple flame guard are a hodgepodge of various defensive abilities in set defense, shield wall and iron zeal - Flamebringers have high natural defense and stay safe using mobility and a high natural threat range
All of those models hit on the low to pathetic end of the damage spectrum though. Its almost exactly the opposite for exemplar.
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Post by slinkdawg on Jul 5, 2017 14:19:10 GMT
I had a game last night against the Trencher theme. Doors of Judgment a Cleanser, who cleared the way for Hand of Judgment to run up to Hailey 3 and then Feora ended the game with a double POW 15 Blazing Effigy thanks to his bonus Blazing Effigy and HOJ are such an awesome combo Hey Blakeh1, would you mind posting the list you used? I like all the pieces you mentioned...
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Post by paradox on Jul 5, 2017 14:21:29 GMT
Have not thought too deeply on Feora in EI yet, but here's a rough swag.
Theme: Exemplar Interdiction Feora, Priestess of the Flame - WJ: +31 - Hand of Judgment - PC: 18 - Revelator - PC: 37 (Battlegroup Points Used: 31) - Reckoner - PC: 16 - Devout - PC: 9
Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Knights Exemplar Seneschal - PC: 0
Exemplar Vengers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
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Post by paradox on Jul 5, 2017 14:25:32 GMT
In Guardians or Interdiction, I REALLY miss the hierophant with Feora. The extra 2" range on spells and effective extra focus is really key, and Ive felt the absence of both very keenly in my theme games so far. Im looking at playing her in Creator's Might next, then probably out of theme too. Guardians has been strong with Ambushing daughters, but I think adding a hiero in might be better for her in the overall. Plus access to other character jacks might open interesting options.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 5, 2017 15:48:29 GMT
In Guardians or Interdiction, I REALLY miss the hierophant with Feora. The extra 2" range on spells and effective extra focus is really key, and Ive felt the absence of both very keenly in my theme games so far. Im looking at playing her in Creator's Might next, then probably out of theme too. Guardians has been strong with Ambushing daughters, but I think adding a hiero in might be better for her in the overall. Plus access to other character jacks might open interesting options. If it was just ambushing daughters I would totally agree. I find though that I can live without the Heirophant for ambush + free Nicia + free vassal or Pyrrhus. Girded is situational but can come in handy. A vanilla Feora1 list would look very different for me though.
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Post by paradox on Jul 5, 2017 15:57:14 GMT
Because caster kill is a win condition, and Spiritual Conduit affects Feora's board position and Harmonious Exaltation affects her camp, I have to disagree.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 5, 2017 16:36:47 GMT
Because caster kill is a win condition, and Spiritual Conduit affects Feora's board position and Harmonious Exaltation affects her camp, I have to disagree. You're also running 4 focus hungry jacks. I'm running the Hand and a sanctifier, which is self fueled from souls, I think we're talking about a difference in play styles here. Your list will, by its very nature, need the extra focus. I'm relying more on ignited infantry to get work done. In each case we're preserving a decent camp just doing it differently. If I was to add more workhorse jacks then Guardians immediately becomes less appealing just by the nature of the theme list and Feora's interaction with the list as a whole. I'm likely running my version into Ret tonight though so I'll see if it can hold it's own against guns.
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