doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jun 25, 2017 2:34:33 GMT
Whelp, after today I can officially confirm that the Avatar is still decent with Sevvy1. One game vs Kaelyssa, he one-rounded Discordia (then I got assassinated. Sad times). Second gamevs Vlad1 he one-rounded a Juggernaut, next round trampled some winterguard to engage & kill Alton Ashley, Kovnik Joe, and a Rocketeer (4 focus on him that turn), then he tanked Vlad attacking him like a champ (opponent conceded after that, he had a half-dead Vlad with no focus in B2B with a fully functional Avatar).
I can't say his 20 points wouldn't be better spent elsewhere, but he's an interesting choice. Another heavy is very much appreciated with Sevvy, and the focus independence is fantastic for a spell-slinger.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 30, 2017 9:15:05 GMT
Ok, so a few games with the list I posted a page or two back. It was a CiD tournament last weekend, before changes were finalised so note VoJ was the boostable Admonisher beast, and certainly the key model in all those matches. Avatar did very well too, though! Basically, as described earlier, The Avatar's plan was to move forward with Defender's Ward, Gaze jammer and dare the opponent to try to take him out, while shooting the hell out of the enemy army with the rest of my models. vs Rask. Second turn my army shoots down the Gator engine and the Avatar moves forward, engaging a Spitter. Gaze prevents an enemy unit from moving completely within a zone to score. He takes a Raged Wrastler, a Totem Hunter and said Ironback and survives for two turns (fighting back little due to being disrupted by Ras's gun). In the meantime the rest of the enemy army is devastated with shooting and Rask dies to arced spells top of four. vs Caine 3. Short game where Avatar does little, because Caine dies top of second turn to those unfair boosted Admonisher bounces and some arced spells, despite having Arcane Shield and spare Focus. vs Una 2. I'd never played Una so I underestimated what the Griffons can do and lost my Avatar top of second turn by moving too close. I could have easily avoided that by moving into range of just a few of his models. Still it traded for three Griffons and a bunch of Tharn (theme) so it wasn't that bad of a trade! A long game where both armies were decimated (it was just sad watching what the Reload fully boosted Admonishers were doing to those Griffons and Tharn) We were left with only a couple of models each when his 2 Tharn got Vengeance attacks and charges on Sevvy and managed to kill him. If only one of those attacks failed it could have easily gone the other way. Last game I played with my Testament army and won against Kreoss 3 and Exemplar Interdiction, trying hard to stay out of range of his Vessel, now I knew what it was capable of Vengeance'ing, Incorporeal, Side Stepping Blood of Martyrs sealed the deal for Kreoss who thought himself safe behind an obstruction. All in all the Avatar did ok and was a worthy addition mostly for its staying power and blocking enemy things with Gaze. I hope it could go to town killing things as well in future matches. I am extremely satisified with the list as a whole (with unboostable Admonishers it will be less unfair and point and click, which is good) and I think Avvy fits it well.
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Post by Wibble on Jun 30, 2017 10:05:51 GMT
Ok, so a few games with the list I posted a page or two back. It was a CiD tournament last weekend, before changes were finalised so note VoJ was the boostable Admonisher beast, and certainly the key model in all those matches. Avatar did very well too, though! Basically, as described earlier, The Avatar's plan was to move forward with Defender's Ward, Gaze jammer and dare the opponent to try to take him out, while shooting the hell out of the enemy army with the rest of my models. vs Rask. Second turn my army shoots down the Gator engine and the Avatar moves forward, engaging a Spitter. Gaze prevents an enemy unit from moving completely within a zone to score. He takes a Raged Wrastler, a Totem Hunter and said Ironback and survives for two turns (fighting back little due to being disrupted by Ras's gun). In the meantime the rest of the enemy army is devastated with shooting and Rask dies to arced spells top of four. vs Caine 3. Short game where Avatar does little, because Caine dies top of second turn to those unfair boosted Admonisher bounces and some arced spells, despite having Arcane Shield and spare Focus. vs Una 2. I'd never played Una so I underestimated what the Griffons can do and lost my Avatar top of second turn by moving too close. I could have easily avoided that by moving into range of just a few of his models. Still it traded for three Griffons and a bunch of Tharn (theme) so it wasn't that bad of a trade! A long game where both armies were decimated (it was just sad watching what the Reload fully boosted Admonishers were doing to those Griffons and Tharn) We were left with only a couple of models each when his 2 Tharn got Vengeance attacks and charges on Sevvy and managed to kill him. If only one of those attacks failed it could have easily gone the other way. Last game I played with my Testament army and won against Kreoss 3 and Exemplar Interdiction, trying hard to stay out of range of his Vessel, now I knew what it was capable of Vengeance'ing, Incorporeal, Side Stepping Blood of Martyrs sealed the deal for Kreoss who thought himself safe behind an obstruction. All in all the Avatar did ok and was a worthy addition mostly for its staying power and blocking enemy things with Gaze. I hope it could go to town killing things as well in future matches. I am extremely satisified with the list as a whole (with unboostable Admonishers it will be less unfair and point and click, which is good) and I think Avvy fits it well. Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jun 30, 2017 10:16:16 GMT
Play experience with Avatar and Vessel of Judgement Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes. You don't need to use either the Avatar or Vessel to win your games and there is nothing wrong with trying to make either of these work. The admonisher interaction was complained about as soon as the Vessel got Reload[1] n CID.
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Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jun 30, 2017 10:32:42 GMT
Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes. Please keep focus on the part we are here to discuss. The subject is How to fix the Avatar. Comments about the vessel can either be discussed in the Vessel thread or through PM, but it is not appropriate to discuss those here. Ryilan
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Post by Wibble on Jun 30, 2017 10:40:21 GMT
Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes. You don't need to use either the Avatar or Vessel to win your games and there is nothing wrong with trying to make either of these work. The admonisher interaction was complained about as soon as the Vessel got Reload[1] n CID. of course I'll use whatever I like to play and criticising things doesn't make them unusable (not that I said anything about the avatar) I made a comment on the incredible skew given to the vessel comments above. It is hilarious and it is forced. I didn't say there was anything wrong with trying to make them work. who are you responding to? People complain about a shedload of units in the game because normally they have an edge of some sort, this isn't imbalance. No-one will complain about the new engine because it has no stand-outs apart from self-destruction, which obviously is an implicit benefit to your opponent. The gun is a lower range/lower ROF version of the storm strider on a slower model which requires extra points of support models- who would complain. The avatar however is still pretty solid.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 30, 2017 11:50:31 GMT
Man you really love that storm strider. Have you considered playing it?
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Post by paradox on Jun 30, 2017 12:23:55 GMT
Ok, so a few games with the list I posted a page or two back. It was a CiD tournament last weekend, before changes were finalised so note VoJ was the boostable Admonisher beast, and certainly the key model in all those matches. Avatar did very well too, though! Basically, as described earlier, The Avatar's plan was to move forward with Defender's Ward, Gaze jammer and dare the opponent to try to take him out, while shooting the hell out of the enemy army with the rest of my models. vs Rask. Second turn my army shoots down the Gator engine and the Avatar moves forward, engaging a Spitter. Gaze prevents an enemy unit from moving completely within a zone to score. He takes a Raged Wrastler, a Totem Hunter and said Ironback and survives for two turns (fighting back little due to being disrupted by Ras's gun). In the meantime the rest of the enemy army is devastated with shooting and Rask dies to arced spells top of four. vs Caine 3. Short game where Avatar does little, because Caine dies top of second turn to those unfair boosted Admonisher bounces and some arced spells, despite having Arcane Shield and spare Focus. vs Una 2. I'd never played Una so I underestimated what the Griffons can do and lost my Avatar top of second turn by moving too close. I could have easily avoided that by moving into range of just a few of his models. Still it traded for three Griffons and a bunch of Tharn (theme) so it wasn't that bad of a trade! A long game where both armies were decimated (it was just sad watching what the Reload fully boosted Admonishers were doing to those Griffons and Tharn) We were left with only a couple of models each when his 2 Tharn got Vengeance attacks and charges on Sevvy and managed to kill him. If only one of those attacks failed it could have easily gone the other way. Last game I played with my Testament army and won against Kreoss 3 and Exemplar Interdiction, trying hard to stay out of range of his Vessel, now I knew what it was capable of Vengeance'ing, Incorporeal, Side Stepping Blood of Martyrs sealed the deal for Kreoss who thought himself safe behind an obstruction. All in all the Avatar did ok and was a worthy addition mostly for its staying power and blocking enemy things with Gaze. I hope it could go to town killing things as well in future matches. I am extremely satisified with the list as a whole (with unboostable Admonishers it will be less unfair and point and click, which is good) and I think Avvy fits it well. Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes. He shoehorned it in a tournament? So what are you saying here, his opponents were bad? That he fixed matchups and lists? What a convincing argument!
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 30, 2017 12:50:36 GMT
Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes. Actually there's something to what you say, VoJ was so powerful in those games it completely overshadowed other pieces (apart from the always wonderful heavy-destroying Redeemer) including the model that should be the main hero of those stories - the Avatar. I wanted to highlight how its performance surpassed expectations -mine and my opponents'. As a result the Avatar's role doesn't look that great in comparison, but his ability to stall the enemy ~10" in front of my firing squad and trade VERY favourably, leaving multiple enemy heavies (or lights in the case of Una) to be shot down at will proved useful in my opinion.
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Post by paradox on Jun 30, 2017 13:00:22 GMT
During the CID I was blowing away stormlance units before they could charge. 2x boosted PS15 (or 16 with Sevy1), plus 2D3 boosted POW10 (11) just murdered the whole damned unit, and sometimes Laddermore too. And that was just with 1 VoJ in 1 activation, for the wibbles of the world.
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Ryilan
Guild Master
Fighting heretics with vindaloo curry. Taste my spicy wrath!
Posts: 74
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Post by Ryilan on Jun 30, 2017 13:04:33 GMT
Stay on topic. How powerful the VoJ was before it's current form has nothing to do with the Avatar of Menoth. Keep things on topic or i will consider the original discussion completed and lock the thread.
Ryilan
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Post by Avatar on Jun 30, 2017 15:20:58 GMT
Do you work for PP? your whole admonisher/vessel is overpowered narrative is literally hilarious - you shoehorned it in at literally every forced opportunity. Snorted my damn breakfast flakes. He shoehorned it in a tournament? So what are you saying here, his opponents were bad? That he fixed matchups and lists? What a convincing argument! No, that he shoehorned all the comments into his avatar review. frankly I don't know where to start with the stupid in your comment. I don't want this thread to close and I unfortunately posted wrote my reply before the gentlemen was trying to realign the thread. I will agree to disagree with Paradox and Cyel. Like I said, I think the Avatar is pretty solid still, the only part that pains is the swingy nature of the focus allocation.. can lead to very variable levels of activity in a turn. I'm assuming it's not viable to use vassals to smooth the swinginess or it just leads to too much points investment?
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Post by Wibble on Jun 30, 2017 15:22:53 GMT
Apologiesbtge above comment is actually mine Avatar = Wibble
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jun 30, 2017 22:39:02 GMT
He shoehorned it in a tournament? So what are you saying here, his opponents were bad? That he fixed matchups and lists? What a convincing argument! No, that he shoehorned all the comments into his avatar review. frankly I don't know where to start with the stupid in your comment. I don't want this thread to close and I unfortunately posted wrote my reply before the gentlemen was trying to realign the thread. I will agree to disagree with Paradox and Cyel. Like I said, I think the Avatar is pretty solid still, the only part that pains is the swingy nature of the focus allocation.. can lead to very variable levels of activity in a turn. I'm assuming it's not viable to use vassals to smooth the swinginess or it just leads to too much points investment? I personally favor taking a vassal, but also keep you jacks close enough together that the vassal can power up a different jack if the Avatar rolls for max focus. Though even if it does, the vassal can still enliven, and ARM21 will help the avatar tank the free strike.
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martini
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by martini on Jun 30, 2017 23:57:03 GMT
During the freestrike the Avatar has it back open to the enemy so no shield bonus.
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