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Post by chillychinaman on Jun 12, 2017 20:29:24 GMT
I remember there being a similar thread back on the PP forums back when the Eye of Truth came out, but since those are long gone, I felt like bringing back some of the salt and vitriol to our new home.
In all seriousness though, what changes would be necessary for people to start considering taking it?
The most obvious buff is to make him immune to Disruption so that he'll always have access to his precious focus, outside of certain feats.) Another idea that popped into my head was to either give him flat 3 Focus a turn or 2 Focus but give him blessed weapons. Finally, as a sorta of inverse of Gaze, which I think should be extended to 10", the ability to spend a focus to gain Polarity Field.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Jun 12, 2017 20:59:52 GMT
Actually I use him/it as is, mostly with casters who are a bit focus-strapped.
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Post by claptrap on Jun 12, 2017 21:07:53 GMT
Actually I use him/it as is, mostly with casters who are a bit focus-strapped. That don't have a lot of battlegroup spells. Thyra springs to mind.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Jun 12, 2017 21:50:54 GMT
Battlegroup buffs and let him bank focus.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Jun 12, 2017 22:27:00 GMT
Actually I use him/it as is, mostly with casters who are a bit focus-strapped. That don't have a lot of battlegroup spells. Thyra springs to mind. Indeed, Thyra loves that jack.
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Post by Swampmist on Jun 12, 2017 22:50:33 GMT
Currently I think he has a niche with Feora1 and Thyra, but he can still be very inneffective for the points. A sanctifier on a bastion senny is, while a bit easier to nullify, a more viable threat imho, especially with how easy it is to get focus on the sanctifier.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Jun 13, 2017 0:06:38 GMT
IMO if he was considered part of the Warcaster's battlegroup for buffs, I think he would see a lot more play as is. Very few Warcasters that want heavies want them out of their battlegroup.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 13, 2017 2:08:10 GMT
Use him as a flank holder and he's okay. As others have said Feora1 and Thyra but I would add Durst and Tristan2 in Creator's might to that list.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jun 13, 2017 2:11:39 GMT
Kreoss3 loves an assailing avatar.
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Alealexi
BattleBox Champ
Burning heritecs and wracking as always... it's a personal hobby.
Posts: 55
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Post by Alealexi on Jun 13, 2017 4:06:41 GMT
I would say let him be affected by battle group buffs, blessed weapon, and change Menoth's Gaze from "advance only toward this model" to "advance directly toward this model" for some real field control.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 13, 2017 4:51:18 GMT
I've recently been using the Avatar with Sevvy 1 and it has worked really well. When it has Defender's Ward that can't be removed with Hex Blast or debuffed by other spells, it can be a serious trouble for enemy heavies. And it can kill a lot of things even with damaged sword hand (MAT 9 POW 20 even without Choir!)
I think allowing the use of WJPs would make it a bit more universal. Battlegroup buffs could be too much and non-thematic. Immunity to Disruption and control takeover would fit the Avatar well though.
All in all the changes needed here are minor IMO and there are a few things in the faction that need them more.
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Post by greytemplar on Jun 13, 2017 5:50:27 GMT
The Avatar really just needs to be updated with Mk3 in mind. His problem is that he got forgotten in the changes.
Rewrite the Avatar rule.
Avatar: This model cannot be allocated Focus or controlled by a Jack Marshal. It does not have a cortex and is immune to disruption. During the control phase, this model gains D3+2 focus points. It may have up to 5 focus points at any one time. This model does not benefit from Power Up.
This would do a few things that would make the Avatar worth his points,
1) It would compensate for Power Up by giving him that focus point he effectively lost in terms of value. Being able to have up to 5 focus would also put him back as a major damage dealer. D3+2 is also way more reliable than D3+1. With 3 focus minimum each turn, he's always going to be able to at least kill a heavy.
2) It would make him part of the battlegroup, meaning he could benefit from abilities and more importantly be bought with WJ points.
3) He would be immune to disruption, as only makes sense thematically.
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Post by charlzheimer on Jun 13, 2017 10:38:46 GMT
the problem isn't the avatar of menoth.
the problem is the meta and the fact that all casters who would love to have him don't fit in said meta.
though the list of casters wanting him has become...alot smaller...with the changes to mark 3 and powerup.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 13, 2017 13:03:39 GMT
the problem isn't the avatar of menoth. the problem is the meta and the fact that all casters who would love to have him don't fit in said meta. though the list of casters wanting him has become...alot smaller...with the changes to mark 3 and powerup. This is it exactly. The avatar is fine as is. If you start tacking more buffs on him then he'll have to go up in cost accordingly and then he becomes even more unattractive as its too many eggs in one basket. If there was only one wish I could actually make for him it would be to use WJP towards his cost. Most lists I build don't want to use anything beyond the normal allotment of WJP and by then I already have all the jacks I want. Creators might lists being the exception but then I usually want battle group jacks.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jun 13, 2017 17:39:02 GMT
I think the only thing the Avatar really needs is to be able to allow it to count towards warjack points even if it cannot be part of the battlegroup.
That is the biggest drawback and the reason I immediately exclude it from most lists. I'd gladly take it as a melee beat stick if I could spend my warjack points on it. It would not be an auto-include, but would sure see a lot more play.
As it is now, I only ever take in in a Creator's Might theme list. Otherwise, I am spending those points on a Vessel or a unit
Allowing it to be part of a battlegroup would be nice, but then I think it then needs a point increase or further potential balancing
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