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Post by galiman on Jul 28, 2019 20:52:24 GMT
Do you think arkadius largely stays the same for now (waiting for the void archon) or is there some merit to the feral geists and the battle boar over the gorax now that it doesn’t have to force for berserk
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Post by Azahul on Jul 28, 2019 21:34:38 GMT
Do you think arkadius largely stays the same for now (waiting for the void archon) or is there some merit to the feral geists and the battle boar over the gorax now that it doesn’t have to force for berserk I don't think I have enough of a problem with infantry to want a Battle Boar in Arkadius. Raw Adrenaline sprays and Gun Boar shots and the fact every Warbeast has Overtake has historically been enough, and the Gorax provides a valuable high damage end game piece. That part hasn't changed just because the Battle Boar has an extra Fury to work with. The Feralgeists on the other hand are at least passingly tempting. I think it's a toss-up between them and Hutchuck, since both provide some good scenario presence in the new packet. I'll trial them out at the very least I think. The list should be something like: Arkadius -War Hog -War Hog -Road Hog -Road Hog -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Gorax -Targ Bellows Crew Mire -Wrastler Kwaak and Gub Witch Doctor Three Feralgeists/Hutchuck Gobber Chef Like you say, not a big shift. The Mist Speaker feels a bit unnecessary in the new scenario packet, but we'll need to see if these all-Incorporeal armies Cryx can now field actually start becoming popular. Of course, once Void Archons come out Mire and the Wrastler probably become two Void Archons and the Hermit, which should be enough to chase off most Incorporeal threats with their magic weapons.
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Post by Azahul on Jul 29, 2019 3:54:34 GMT
So I have a game from last week to report, with pre-CID rules. I decided to pack Lord Carver in my bag for the weekly game night, although I didn't actually change anything else so I was working with the bits and pieces from my Arkadius and Sturm (mostly Arkadius) lists for the game. I ended up playing: Lord Carver -Road Hog -Road Hog -War Hog -War Hog -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Soul Slave Bellows Crew Mire -Wrastler Orin Midwinter Lanyssa Kwaak and Gub Gobber Chef My opponent played Goreshade4, running: Goreshade -Phoenix -Phoenix Max Sentinels -UA Max Destors Lyss Healer Destor Thane Dawnguard Scyir House Shyeel Artificer Arcanist Mechanik Ghost Sniper Trident Deployment My opponent won the starting roll and took first (awwww, I was hoping to get in an 18" turn one run before losing that option). I got my revenge by dumping him on a table side littered with Hazards. He set up his Trident and Sentinels on the left, Destors and a Phoenix on the right, Goreshade and the other Phoenix central. I responded by placing both War Hogs on my left, aiming for the Trident, and the Road Hogs with Lanyssa, Mire, and the Wrastler on the right, figuring that they were my only chance of playing the threat range game with the Destors. Both objectives are Stockpiles. Retribution Turn 1 Goreshade puts Inviolable Resolve on the Destors and moves up. Everything else runs, hanging back enough that the Lyss Healer can strip their continuous effects after they move into the various Hazards. Pigs Turn 1 Carver cast Batten Down the Hatches and put Quagmire on one of the Road Hogs. He then advanced up the board, camping one. Orin Midwinter moved up and gave himself stealth, hanging out near Carver to deter any assassination runs. Mire moved up and used his clouds to cover the space between the house and the cloud on the right to let my Road Hogs close in on the Destors (Quagmire'd Road Hog in the lead). I raced the War Hogs forward on the left, putting one inside the charge range of the Trident, and gave them both Enliven with Kwaak. Everything else ran up to get close to the centre, but not entering it (and the Destors' threat range) yet. Retribution Turn 2 The Destors took a couple of mostly harmless potshots at the Gun Boars. The Trident charged the left-hand War Hog I had left inside its charge range. The slam knocked the War Hog back, Enliven basically moved it back into melee with the Trident again. The gun shots brought it down to about half health. The Sentinels ran up behind the Trident and used their Mini-Feat. Goreshade Feated and clouded up the centre of the board. Pigs Turn 2 Carver upkept Quagmire for free with the Soul Slave. Lanyssa tried to tag the Phoenix on the right with Hunter's Mark but missed. Carver activated next and used Mobility, Batten, and Feated, since I was worried about bringing it down without the free charge. Mire gave the Road Hog Rage and used a cloud to cover Carver. The Road Hog charged the Phoenix, smashed it pretty comfortably, and sprinted back to the back edge of the zone. The other Road Hog sprayed the Ghost Sniper contesting that zone out on the far right. In the centre the full health War Hog smashed the Trident and was frozen for his troubles (we had both been forgetting Goreshade's Feat until this moment, and I just realised the Road Hog probably wouldn't have been able to sprint either. Oops). The other War Hog backed up to be outside the Sentinels' threat ranges. One Gun Boar took a potshot at my opponent's objective and did six damage, blast damage bouncing off the Sentinels. I scored the right-hand zone, bringing the score to 1-0 in my favour. Retribution Turn 3 I'd managed to arrange matters so that only the lead two Destors had any viable charge targets. One charged the Stationary War Hog, the other charged a Gun Boar. The others just ran. Neither Destor did a terribly impressive amount of damage. The Phoenix ran to the left hand zone to score it, and Goreshade gave the Sentinels Ghostly so that they could walk up and take a few swings at the Stationary War Hog. The Arcanist Mechanik ran up on the right to get close enough to contest next turn. We each scored a zone and my opponent scored the centre flag with his Artificer, bringing us even at 2-2. Pigs Turn 3 The Quagmire'd Road Hog frenzied on the objective and did something like 8 damage to it. Carver activated and cast Batten and Mobility again. Mire moved across to toss Rage onto the War Hog out on the left, and then put a cloud on himself for stealth. The Wrastler gave the reserve Road Hog on the right Rage as well. The War Hog with Rage walked around the Sentinels, killed one with a Gore Attack to break up their defensive line, and used Overtake to get into my opponent's Phoenix and kill it plus a second Sentinel. The Gun Boar on the left shot the objective again, knocked it down to six boxes, and killed two Sentinels with the blast damage. My second War Hog tried to Overtake through a bunch of Destors and Sentinels to clear out the centre of the table. Unfortunately I missed all bar one attack against the Destor, who made his Tough check. Kwaak managed to clear out a couple of Sentinels with Venoms and left the Destor who charged the Gun Boar corroded, and also healed a crippled Mind on the Gun Boar. The Gun Boar then managed to force a Tough check from the Destor, which passed. The Road Hog with Rage charged in and dropped two Destors closest to the right-hand zone and boosted to kill the Arcanist with his assault spray, making contesting the right zone a difficult problem, and then sprinted into the centre of the zone to contest the flag there. I scored the right-hand zone to take the lead again at 3-2. Retribution Turn 4 The corroded Destor melted. The others moved out of the way, attacking the central War Hog to little success. The Sentinels mobbed and killed the damaged War Hog off on the left flank. The Artificer charged the central Road Hog and slammed him away from the flag, rolling the full six inches. The Scyir ran towards the right flank to get within contesting range next turn. I forgot to take a picture. At the end of the turn my opponent was able to score the central flag with the Lyss Healer, and I scored the right-hand zone again to make the score 4-3. Pigs Turn 4 The Road Hog on the right killed the Scyir. Lanyssa tried to tag the Destor Thane with a Hunter's Mark but missed. The central Road Hog cleared out the Destor Thane and Artificer, while the War Hog dropped the remaining Destors. Orin Midwinter killed the last Sentinel in the zone by bouncing a Chain Lightning off the Road Hog, avoiding triggering Vengeance and clearing the central zone. The Bellows Crew moved into the zone and popped some smoke to score, because I straight up forgot that the original intent was to spread them out so that Goreshade couldn't kill both with one AOE. I scored the right-hand and central zone, running the score up to 6-3. Retribution Turn 5 Goreshade charged the Road Hog in the central zone and killed it, but taking one attack too many and leaving himself without enough Focus to nuke the Bellows Crew. The Sentinels downed the last War Hog. I scored the right-hand zone, my opponent scored the central flag, leaving the score at 7-4. Pigs Turn 5 A Gun Boar shot and killed the two Sentinels in the centre zone. Lanyssa ran onto Goreshade's flag. I scored the centre and right zones and the central flag to win 10-4. It was nice to play Carver again, it's been a while since I took him for a romp. This wasn't what I would typically run with him, but I did enjoy slingshotting Speed 9 Road Hogs around for potential 10" Sprints (including the Overtake move) even if I never used anywhere near that much speed. Still, his 12" Control was a serious limitation on this scenario. If my opponent had sat the Trident in the far left corner of the zone I wouldn't have been able to threaten it with the War Hogs without abandoning the right flank and exposing Carver. I was lucky that he took the bait and charged the War Hog, letting me more or less ignore the left flank for the rest of the game. Even so, I was often playing to the absolute outer limits of Carver's control range in order to just put the hurt on the Sentinels and Phoenix that ended up over there. Seeing that I usually play pretty heavy on the warbeast side, learning these new scenarios might take some finesse. At least Sturm and Drang has the advantage of being able to spread out with their many Warbeasts. It's a brick list by nature, but it isn't forced to play that way in the same fashion Carver is, and that flexibility is probably going to prove to be a pretty big boon. And honestly, if I were playing Carver again, I would be strongly considering bringing Targ instead of the Soul Slave just to have some way to project threat beyond the limits of his control range.
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Post by Dirhavel on Aug 3, 2019 14:27:44 GMT
I don't know if you've tried it yet but I gave a shot to Boomhowler2 in your Sturm list yesterday (he took Eilish's place) and he was impressive!
There's a lot of good Reposition targets in the list and the combination of Cacophony and the Covering Fire/Beat Back/Crit KD on his gun means he always has something to do and he adds another layer of control to a list that already excels in that department. Whether he's better than Eilish probably has more to do with the intended matchups than the models themselves, but I think he's at the very least a legit option.
I was playing against a Storm of the North list and Boomy denied a fire eater charge turn 2 with the covering fire, he almost single-handedly held back an ambushing unit of bears with his gun while also handing reposition all over the place. He ended up dying to those same bears eventually but I was still very happy with his performance.
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vomath
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vomath on Aug 3, 2019 20:11:23 GMT
I'm really excited to try out Boomhowler2's Repo [3"] on S&D, Midas, and Barny2. Also, with Barny1 to combine Repo, Warpath, and Overtake on a Swamp Horror. He's one of the releases I've become most surprised about.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 5, 2019 0:23:06 GMT
I sadly haven't had a chance to play around with Boomhowler (I'm not super into proxying), but I am very excited for his release. I don't know if I'll be able to squeeze him into the Sturm and Drang list generally, but I hope to try him out. My impression on paper is that he'd make the list stronger overall, but weaker into offensive spellcasters and a handful of other cases. Eilish shines either when the opponent has the capacity to burn through Orin's Power Tokens or by allowing Orin to preserve his tokens in cases like Enfeeble where there's little harm in letting the spell go through so long as you remember to unbind it. He also helps against anyone who would want to jam the Dracodile/other models in the list with upkeep buffed models, like Iona throwing a Sure Foot unit forward. Dreamer and Iona are relatively significant match-ups that the list would end up being a little weaker into, so I'm still tossing up his inclusion. I am certainly going to try him out though. In Sturm and Drang, and in other places.
Off the top of my head, I think Skarath, Lug, Void Archons, Gun Boars, Sturm and Drang, Midas, Mire, and the Bellows Crew are all significant beneficiaries of his Reposition Fell Call. I imagine he'll also synergise well with a few of the new solos, but it's Mire and the Bellows Crew where my attention is currently somewhat fixated. Being able to put down a cloud and then hide behind it allows Minions to build a proper cloud wall (albeit in a meta where Eyeless Sight on a stick is now an integral part of the overall scenario packet). I'm going to have fun playing around with that. Mire also doesn't hate being able to drop his clouds down and then back up, seeing as he is so often out of Fury after doing so.
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Post by mydnight on Aug 5, 2019 0:28:16 GMT
Boomie can repo the Archons or the Hermit, which can be gold in some cases.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 5, 2019 0:54:25 GMT
Yeah, the Hermit, and Scythe and the Wolf With No Name will probably get a kick out of the occasional Repo.
Honestly it's pretty good even on Boomie himself, letting you drop a Covering Fire template and then back up to make it harder to remove by killing him.
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Post by dessert hydra on Aug 9, 2019 13:17:42 GMT
I like Solo Boomie with the Nyss Hunters & the Valkyries. For me Midas turns them up to 10 and add what they missed which is repo.
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Post by Azahul on Aug 19, 2019 6:05:45 GMT
Ok, so, been playing games a bit since I got back to Australia, but haven't been documenting many of them. Feels a bit redundant, since my aversion to proxying means that there doesn't feel like there's much point in playing/recording Arkadius games since those lists are going to have a huge overhaul in the next few months. That said, Sturm and Drang are probably going to remain pretty much the same (even if I am tempted to crowbar Boomhowler2 in somewhere when he releases), so here's a post-Oblivion game with that in mind. My opponent is experimenting with all sorts of different Krueger builds, so the lists were: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Soul Slave Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew Mire -Dracodile Dahlia -Skarath Brun -Lug Eilish Orin Krueger -Storm Raptor -Blood Witch Max Ravagers -Chieftain Bloodweavers -Haruspex Boil Master and Spirit Cauldron Wolf Rider Champion Wolf Rider Champion Ravager Shaman Lord of the Feast Primal Archon (represented by a Wold) Well of Orboros Deployment I won the starting roll, which honestly gave me a pretty agonising decision to make. I opted to go first, but I think going second would have been the right choice. I couldn't claim as much board presence as I could have prior to the Oblivion changes by going first, and being able to prevent Krueger from scoring first would have been a good idea. In any case, I set the Dracodile on the left, Dahlia and Skarath on the right, and everything else clumped in between. My opponent stacked the right flank pretty hard with both the Storm Raptor and Ravagers, while his solos largely dominated the left flank. The ambushing threat of his Bloodweavers meant that he could score either flank if he wanted to though, so I couldn't relax because of that. I forgot to take a picture. The Bloodweavers were set up to ambush. His objective was a Stockpile. I believe I took an Observatory because of the central Fog. Pigs Turn 1 Sturm put up Polarity Shield on the Dracodile, Vision on Skarath, Deceleration on himself, and charged forward. Everything else ran save the lessers, who each put their respective upkeeps in play (Weald Secrets going on the War Hog). I sent Skarath further out on the right flank to take advantage of the wall there, but in retrospect I feel like I should have taken the opportunity to redeploy. The Storm Raptor is too dangerous for Dahlia and Skarath to run up against easily I think, whereas the Dracodile can absorb its ranged output more easily and bully the Ravagers. Circle Turn 1 Krueger's army ran up and the Spirit Cauldron loaded up the Lord of the Feast. I think I had largely kept out of his threat ranges, so there wasn't much else going on. The Well spawned in a Night Witch and tried to scatter an AOE onto the solo cluster in the middle there, but scattered the wrong way. Pigs Turn 2 I figured that I needed to play conservatively enough to not give away an attrition lead, but aggressively enough that I could stop Krueger from just running away with the game. The trick would be to use a Shield Guard or two to stop him from killing my objective, while denying one of the zones. I kinda forgot about the Bloodweavers though, figured that the Boil Master couldn't score the left zone, and decided to just have the Dracodile move up and spray a Champion off the table (with Eilish's help via Puppet Master). Everything else basically hung back. I build an anti-Lord of the Feast bunker near the objective, which meant that while it had two Shield Guards in range I could only really use one to stop the objective from dying, and extended out the cloud wall with Mire. Skarath swung back towards the centre cluster rather than hang out to dry unsupported on the right. Circle Turn 2 Bloodweavers came in on the left and ran to jam that zone full of bodies. The last Champion did a light scratching of damage to the Dracodile. The Lord of the Feast shot the Dracodile with the Raven and was Shield Guarded off to the nearby Battle Boar instead, nearly losing the Battle Boar in the process. The Mist Speaker gave Guidance to the Storm Raptor. It shot up the objective, rolling ridiculously well and killing it on its own (I was saving my War Hog's Shield Guard for the Well's shot so that my solos wouldn't be hit by blast damage), but maxing itself out in the process. Krueger moved up and Feated on my army, then TK'd himself back behind the wall. Ravagers ran into the right zone. The Night Witch ran onto the flag. The Primal Archon moved up to contest my flag. The Well tried to scatter an AOE into my solos again but ended up just chipping Mire a bit. With both zones, my objective, and his flag, my opponent had the score at 0-4 in his favour. Pigs Turn 3 Whelp, that went badly. Only option left was an assassination. Maxed out Storm Raptor meant I didn't even need my Feat. The Dracodile was comfortably in range, Skarath and Orin could be too with some TK work. I ran my War Hog out of Skarath's way. The Dracodile received Puppet Master from Eilish, since I figured I'd need to hit with the Blind Spray first before I could hope to TK the otherwise Def 19 Krueger from behind the wall. The Dracodile took a free strike from the Champion, nearly lost its Spirit from a crazy high spike, tagged Krueger with its spray and almost one-shot him with a spike of its own. Mire gave Sturm Weald Secrets so that he could charge through the rubble. Sturm TK'd himself forward so that he could see Orin behind him, TK'd Orin too, then charged the Primal Archon (missing the charge attack) and TK'd Krueger forward and around with the last of his Fury. Dahlia ran forward to get Krueger in her control range. Skarath moved up and finished the job, but Orin was in range too in case that went poorly. Oof, that was a rough start to the post-Oblivion world, but we got there. If I've learned anything from my last couple of games against Storm Raptors it's that I think I need to more aggressively position the Dracodile across from them early to control their board position, and to try and set up Dahlia and Skarath on an opposite flank where they can operate with rather more impunity. Switching models around early on is going to be a lot more arduous without the speed increase though, so I think I'll need to take a bit more care when deploying to make sure that either models are lined up against their intended opponents, or that I can find a way to redeploy if I have to. What that likely means is that instead of anchoring the flanks the way they currently do, the Dracodile and Skarath may need to be deployed at the very centre whenever possible if I'm going first. Going second I can react to my opponent's deployment, so it's less important there.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 4, 2019 2:11:31 GMT
Since most of my post-Oblivion experimenting has been with Arkadius and Sturm lists that are basically identical to their pre-Oblivion versions, I haven't had a lot that felt worth reporting on the game front. Once the Void Archon, Hermit, and Boomhowler2 drop I can shake up my Arkadius list a bit and toy around with the new options available there, but that just further reinforces that games with lists I've played to death that are on the cusp of changing probably aren't worth exploring too much further here. This week though, in part as a consequence of all the discussion happening in the thread about Midas in this forum, I decided to dive in and test out the reworked Thornfall Alliance theme with... well, basically a rehash of an old list I ran a lot about a year ago. I grabbed a whole lot of pig infantry and stuffed them into my bag and basically just tossed them all into my list. Forgot to do anything on the Warbeast front though, so that ended up basically being whatever I had already packed. I ended up running: Midas -War Hog -Gun Boar -Gun Boar Max Brigands -Warlord Max Brigands -Warlord Min Bone Grinders Slaughterhousers Slaughterhousers Valkyries Valkyries Razorback Crew Razorback Crew Gobber Chef Gobber chef Could have maxed out the Bone Grinders if I dropped the Chefs, who aren't really doing much in this list, but I felt like I wanted some solos for scoring purposes if nothing else. My opponent was testing out a Rahera build in Scourge of the Broken Coast. The list was: Rahera -Kraken -Kharybdis -Deathripper Max Blighted Trollkin Marauders -Jussika Bloodtongue Min Blood Witches -Blood Hag Deneghra0 -Deathripper Gerlak Slaughterborn Warwitch Siren Axiara Wraithblade Ragman Deployment I won the starting roll and eagerly grabbed first because, you know, slow pigs need all the edge they can get. I placed my trench templates across the centre-left, making sure that they were at least touching the central zone. I then deployed my mass of infantry in a largely symmetrical fashion, with the War Hog on Midas's left and the Gun Boars on his right. My opponent set up his Kraken on the right flank, Kharybdis and the Marauders on the left, Denny and her Deathripper on the far left, and ambushed the Blood Witches. For my AD, I placed the Razorbacks centre-right so that they could begin lining up shots on the Kraken. There are a couple of proxies here because I didn't pack my bag too well on leaving the house. The Razorback Crew grunts are represented by Razor Boars, and the Swamp Gobber on the left flank is a Bellows Crew standing in for a second Chef. My objective is a Fuel Cache, his is a Treasure Chest. The left flank Brigands have Kharybdis as their Prey Target, the right flank Brigands have the Kraken. Pigs Turn 1 Midas cast Death March on the left flank Brigands, figuring that they'd need Vengeance to compete with the Marauders toe-to-toe, and charged up towards Kharybdis. Everything else in the army ran, though the Razorback Crews didn't go very far and prepared to lurk in the trenches all game. Cryx Turn 1 Rahera cast Escort and Rough Seas and moved up. Everything else ran, except the Kraken which moved up and did about 12 points of damage to one of the Gun Boars. The Blast Damage hurt a Slaughterhouser and one of the Razorback Crew grunts, but both passed their Tough checks. Pigs Turn 2 The knocked down models stood up thanks to Rise. The Razorback Crews took pot shots at the Kraken, doing about eight points of damage. Both units of Brigands moved closer and Dug In, though two on the left took shots at Deneghra's Deathripper. One of the shots hit and did a few points of damage. Midas spent a Fury healing one of the Gun Boars. Everything else in the army bunched up, though I made sure to scatter the Valkyries throughout the formation so that I could chain Shield Guard the Kraken's AOE somewhere harmless. I ran a Gobber Chef out into the right zone to encourage my opponent to bring the Blood Witches in there and hopefully commit the Kraken into that zone where I figured I could easily kill it. Midas just spent a Fury healing the damaged Gun Boar, which ran up into the middle of the central zone as a second temptation for the Kraken. Cryx Turn 2 My opponent opted not to bring in the Blood Witches. Kharybdis received two focus from Rahera. He moved up and sprayed a couple of the left flank Brigands dead, and then dropped a cloud on himself. Deneghra put Witch Bond on her Deathripper, which moved in and killed the Brigand in the left zone to give her a soul. The Marauders bunched up behind Kharybdis and threw a few fire bombs at the Brigands without much of an impact. The Kraken moved forward and tried to tag a whole lot of infantry with its main gun, but I Shield Guarded it off to an isolated Valkyrie. The Valkyrie died, and the Kraken then put its mini gun into the damaged Gun Boar and killed it. Rahera's Deathripper was feeling pretty blocked off by the Kraken, so ran around the other side of the building. Rahera used her remaining Focus to put up Rough Seas again. My opponent scored the left zone, making the score 0-1 in his favour. Pigs Turn 3 The Brigands on the left Vengeanced out of the way of the War Hog. I forgot to use Vengeance on the right flank Valkyries. The War Hog used its Aggression Dial and charged and killed Kharybdis, moving the left flank Brigands' Prey target to the Marauders. Midas moved up to the edge of the trench in the centre zone and put Calamity on the Kraken, then converted his corpse token into a Fury and camped three. The Razorback Crews and the right flank Brigands shot the Kraken off the table. Their Prey target moved to Rahera's Deathripper. I had intended to go after the Marauders with my Brigands, but decided that triggering Vengeance would give my opponent too many options. I opted instead to charge the Brigands into the Deathripper (Hog Wild shots peppered his objective for two points of damage since the Deathripper was already engaged), but some poor rolling and the decision to not Prey it first meant that it survived with three boxes remaining. I had to charge in a Slaughterhouser to finish the job, but it being intact meant I couldn't reposition the Brigands to space them out and better contest my opponent's zone. Everything else in the army just ran forward to be ready to continue the fight next round, save the Gobber Chef on the right. He walked around the Burning Earth and chipped a couple of points of damage onto the Deathripper there with his Backstab attack. Cryx Turn 3 The Blood Witches ambushed in on the right flank. They charged the objective and Gobber Chef on the right, killing both as well as the Brigand closest to the zone. The Deathripper walked in to score the zone. My opponent committed the Marauders and Deneghra to clearing out the Brigands on the left zone, before realising that his only way to score it was by running Rahera and that would leave him without the attacks required to clear the central flag and win. He decided to commit Rahera to try and clear the central zone instead. She hit one Brigand, who Toughed, which allowed her to put Black Spot on him and kill a second Brigand to trigger a Hand Cannon shot at a Slaughterhouser in the Trench in the zone. That shot hit and was Shield Guarded to a Valkyrie, who died to the shot. She killed the knocked down Brigand for a second Hand Cannon shot, hitting the Slaughterhouser again, but this time he passed his Tough check. She Feated for a third Hand Cannon shot, this time at the Razorback Gunner in the zone, but missed. Her Marauders cleared out the knocked down Slaughterhouser (setting the Razorback on fire) and the remaining contesting Brigands, but couldn't hit the Razorback in the trench. Rahera sprinted back to safety. None of the other solos were close enough to score the central flag. My opponent scored the right-hand zone and objective, bringing the score to 0-3 in his favour. Pigs Turn 4 Fire stayed up on the Razorback Gunner, but failed to crack armour. Midas pulled Fury from the Gun Boar and left the War Hog on two, but he passed his Threshold check. The two remaining Brigands in the left unit used Vengeance to move up and kill one of the Marauders, and position themselves for a Hog Wild later in the turn. Midas then dropped Death March. The one remaining Valkyrie on the right used Vengeance to get behind the Blood Witches. That Valkyrie activated first, charged and killed two of the Blood Witches closest to my table edge. The Brigands on the right went next, used Hog Wild and shot the Deathripper off the table, then charged into the two Marauders on the right and killed them both. That freed up the Gun Boar, who walked into the zone and cleared out the last three Blood Witches (including the Hag) with a close range gun shot. Midas Cursed the left flank Marauders, then boosted a Calamity onto them. He moved to the right in the trench to get out of the way of the models behind him. The two remaining Brigands on the left used Hog Wild to shoot two Marauders dead, then charged into a third and killed it after a successful Tough check. They repositioned out of the way of the Slaughterhousers. One Slaughterhouser charged Deneghra, and missed, the other four charged and killed a Marauder apiece. This opened a clear line of sight for the Razorback Crews to shoot at Jussika and Gerlak (always the most terrifying model on the table for a mass infantry army). I prioritised Jussika, and shot her off the table with two Razorback shots and a grunt's Pig Iron shot. The War Hog then walked into Gerlak and killed him eventually. He opted to not take his last swing on Axiara, since missing would let her Dodge into the zone to contest. My remaining Gobber Chef ran onto the central flag, and those infantry not involved in clearing up on the flanks ran to form a wall of bodies in front of Midas and to clog up the zone. I scored the right zone, the central zone, and the centre flag, bringing the score level at 3-3. Cryx Turn 4 My opponent used Axiara and Rahera to clear line of sight to Midas, but it took enough attacks that Rahera only had two unboosted Bleeds to throw at Midas when she was done. Neither hit, and my opponent conceded. Well, that was an interesting game. Like I mentioned in the other thread, my initial impressions were that the trenches were a solid boon and that having the points to get Razorback Crews back into the list helped that early game threat projection immensely. I really like that the trenches can be placed within the central zones, making hanging on by the fingertips that much easier. My opponent's Turn 3 came very close to getting him the five CPs he needed, he just need two shots to kill the Razorback Crew through its one Valkyrie Shield Guard. The Trench took that from a reasonable expectation to pretty unlikely. I still wouldn't say I particularly enjoy Midas's playstyle, and the fundamental experience of playing down on scenario until the game drags on long enough to swing an attrition advantage was a painful reminder of many close calls back when I used to play this list, but it certainly feels a bit more solid than it used to. A few more bodies, a touch more flexibility, and those trenches are basically always in use. The slow pace of this list guarantees there will just about always be another wave of models sitting in the trenches waiting for the models in front of them to die, and the trench helps to keep that second and third wave safe (not to mention making it easier to run up the table early game with the Brigands without having to make painful decisions around Dig In). Rahera's honestly quite a lot of fun to play against too. Her personal infantry clearing potential is pretty ballistic on Feat turn against a Black Spotted unit. She fell just shy of doing what she needed to do in this game, but I was definitely impressed
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Post by danfromchicago on Sept 8, 2019 1:50:41 GMT
So, I was talking with a guy whose name could be something like Frett Bogel, and he was.sayimg that clockatrices trump Arkadius.
Like there's no game
What do you say to that?
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Post by Azahul on Sept 8, 2019 3:18:47 GMT
Two is playable, since they need to be close enough to attack in order to spray a target. More is probably unplayable. I wouldn't know though, Sturm and Drang work so well in the Grymkin match-up that I haven't had a reason to drop Arkadius into Clockatrices in months.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 16, 2019 3:23:06 GMT
Boy I've been bad about keeping up to date with these reports. The first one was a game into a really tough match-up, Sorscha1 in Wolves of Winter. The lists were: Midas -War Hog -Gun Boar -Gun Boar Max Brigands -Warlord Max Brigands -Warlord Min Bone Grinders Slaughterhousers Slaughterhousers Valkyries Valkyries Razorback Crew Razorback Crew Gobber Chef Gobber Chef Sorscha -Marauder -Marauder -Marauder -Greylord Adjunct Doom Reavers -Escort Doom Reavers -Escort Doom Reavers -Escort Doom Reavers -Escort Ternion Ternion Ternion Koldun Lord Koldun Lord Alexia2 Deployment My opponent won the starting roll, which was going to make things pretty difficult. We'd rolled up Spread the Net for the scenario, which made things doubly tricky. I grabbed a table side with a second forest that I could hopefully use to block Sorscha's line of sight to one flank and reduce the effectiveness of her Feat turn a little. We each deployed pretty much symmetrically with our respective armies. The Brigands selected their opposing Marauders as Prey targets, though in retrospect I think the Doom Reavers would have been better choices. Even if one from each unit had run to the back of the board to minimise my Prey usage, they were bigger threats to my army than the Marauders could ever be. Khador Turn 1 Sorscha cast Fog of War and Wind Rush and everything else ran. Pigs Turn 1 My Gun Boars moved up and managed to both miss targets and scatter their AOEs into empty space, which took a bit of effort in such a target rich environment. The Razorback Crews were a little more successful, killing a Doom Reaver out on the right. The Brigands moved up and took some pot shots to try and get as many Doom Reavers off the board as possible, but they only knocked down a central Doom Reaver. Khador Turn 2 Doom Reavers engaged in the centre, but a few poor attack rolls meant they they weren't able to completely remove one of the Razorback Crews. One Doom Reaver was wounded by a Counterblast shot from a Gun Boar, but he passed his tough check. The two Reavers able to get to the Gobber Chef on the left failed to hit entirely. Everything else moved up behind them, with the Koldun Lord on the right sitting on the flag there. Pigs Turn 2 I was definitely on the back foot on scenario, but looking at the way things stood I figured I could probably contest my opponent's zone, score my zone, and maybe kill the Koldun Lord on the flag to be able to get 1-0 on scenario and keep myself in the game (hopefully even through Sorscha's Feat turn). I started on the right flank with the Valkyries to clear out the closest Doom Reavers in my zone. They managed to drop a Reaver apiece. I then needed to kill two more Doom Reavers, but between half a dozen Hog Wild shots needing 8s to hit and three melee attacks needing 7s I failed to land a single hit. That... put me in a pretty dire position. I had been able to free up the Razorback Crew on the right, so it advanced and took a pot shot at the Koldun Lord. In an instance of good luck, it hit the shot and killed him. Unfortunately, my remaining shots from my Gun Boars and other Razorback Crew couldn't clear two important Doom Reavers on the left. Had they died, my Brigand unit leader could have charged one of the second line Doom Reavers and repositioned in to contest my opponent's zone (probably overextending the entire unit and getting them all killed in the process, but keeping me in the game). Instead, I had to content myself with killing as many Doom Reavers as I could. I managed to drop a fair few, and used my War Hog to make it hard for my opponent to use a Marauder to slam my Gun Boar out of the central zone. My opponent scored his zone, making the score 0-1 in his favour. Khador Turn 3 My opponent went for a scenario win. Alexia moved around behind the army, spawned a couple of Thrall Warriors, and had one of them run onto his flag. Sorscha put Boundless Charge on the Marauder in the central zone. She then moved up, killed a Brigand, and used Wind Rush to get the Gobbers on the left in her control area. She Feated. The Doom Reavers killed the Gobbers and all the Brigands in the central zone, and a Koldun Lord ran onto my flag on the left. The Marauder with Boundless Charge was able to get out onto a wide enough angle to combo slam the stationary Gun Boar out of the zone. With my opponent scoring his zone, both flags, and the central zone, he took the score to 0-5 and won the game. Neither my opponent nor I had much luck in this game. Doom Reavers tended to miss their targets more often than not, even needing 5s to hit, and while I needed higher numbers I had a lot more attacks to try and brute force out some 7s and 8s. Unfortunately, his list was in the much more commanding position and didn't even need average rolls to win. Obviously, this was a hideously bad match-up for the Midas list, though at the same time I had managed to do a pretty significant amount of damage. I'm not sure how well I could have ridden out Sorscha's Feat turn, but the attrition game wasn't as entirely hopeless as I feared going in.
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Post by Azahul on Sept 20, 2019 0:25:59 GMT
My Rahera opponent from the other week and I sat down for another Rahera vs Midas game. The lists were: Midas -War Hog -Gun Boar -Gun Boar Max Brigands -Warlord Max Brigands -Warlord Min Bone Grinders Slaughterhousers Slaughterhousers Valkyries Valkyries Razorback Crew Razorback Crew Gobber Chef Gobber Chef Rahera -Kraken -Kharybdis -Deathripper Max Smog Belchers Max Blighted Trollkin Marauders -Jussika Min Blood Witches -Hag Misery Cage Axiara Ragman Deployment I won the starting roll and took first. Ended up with a table side where I couldn't quite place my trenches together across the centre of the table, so they ended up a little staggered. Deployed my army in the usual fashion of roughly a unit of each type on each side and the battlegroup in the centre. My opponent had his Marauders and Kraken on the right, Smog Belchers and Kharybdis on the left. I picked a Fuel Cache for my objective. I can't recall my opponent's choice, it may have been a Treasure Chest or something. The Blood Witches are ambushing. The right flank Brigands have the Kraken as their Prey target, the left flank have Kharybdis. Pigs Turn 1 Midas put Death March on the right flank Brigands and charged up the board. Everything else ran, though the Brigands on the right kept a little bit back so that they wouldn't run straight into range of the Kraken's gun. Cryx Turn 1 Rahera cast Rough Seas and Escort. Her army ran up, though the Smog Belchers on the left were slowed by the building and the struggle to not end up in range of the Brigands. I think the one furthest out on the left was out of Rahera's control range and thus in range for the Gun Boar at least. Pigs Turn 2 I gave Pathfinder to one of the Gun Boars and shot a Smog Belcher dead, doing a few points of damage to the Ogrun beside him. The other Gun Boar tried to scatter a shot into the midst of the central Smog Belchers but the shot ended up somewhere irrelevant. Both Gun Boars cast Counter Blast. The Razorback Crews took pot shots at the Kraken for seven or eight points of damage. The Brigands on both flanks advanced and Dug In. The Valkyries spread out to try and cover most of the army with Shield Guards. Everything else shuffled up behind them. I threw the War Hog up into the centre of the table, out of Kharybdis's line of sight, to try and provoke the Kraken in where I could easily kill it. Cryx Turn 2 I'd accidentally avoided an assassination on Midas by a couple of millimetres, since I had totally forgotten to check the Kraken's threat range. My opponent had to play attrition as a result. The Kraken charged my War Hog, did a ton of damage, and made its second initial into a Brigand. It killed the Brigand, took a Kill Shot on a Brigand too far away from a Valkyrie to Shield Guard, and caught five other Brigands in the blast (its 4" melee range having stripped them of Dig In). It broke armour on all six and I think two passed their Tough checks. The Kraken made its remaining two attacks on the War Hog but managed to miss both of them. The Smog Belchers moved up and took some shots, most of them directed at the War Hog, but couldn't land a hit. Rest of the army ran up to be relevant next turn. The Blood Witches ambushed in and ran to engage a bunch of Brigands on the left flank. Rahera advanced and cast Rough Seas again. I forgot to take a picture. We each scored our zones, putting the score to 1-1. Pigs Turn 3 Midas upkept Death March and healed the War Hog a couple of points. The War Hog used its aggression dial and dropped the Kraken to a handful of hit points. Slaughterhousers on the right charged up into the forest and finished the job. The Brigands on the right moved their Prey target to the Marauders. They took some pot shots, but I think the only wounding attack was Toughed, triggering Vengeance for no gain. A couple of Slaughterhousers on the left killed off some of the contesting Blood Witches. The Razorback Crews, Gun Boars, and Brigands on the left shot Kharybdis off the board and moved the Brigands' Prey target to the Blood Witches. A Smog Belcher died to all the blast damage while killing Kharybdis. The remaining Brigands managed to kill all of the Blood Witches bar the Hag, the one Brigand able to get a bead on her missed his shot. I ran my Gobber Chef to score the left flag. We each scored our respective zones, so the score was now 2-1 in my favour. Cryx Turn 3 The Marauders charged into my front line on the right. The one charge on my War Hog failed to kill it, leaving it on two boxes I think. Rahera killed a Brigand to throw Black Spot onto the left Brigand unit and Feated. The Marauders killed another bunch of models on the right and set a ton of others on fire with their Feat attacks, but the War Hog clung to life. The Deathripper charged and killed my Chef on the left. The Smog Belchers shot a few Brigands on the left off the board. The Hag killed a Brigand with her blade and used the kill to turn incorporeal, preventing me from finishing her off and moving Prey around. We each scored our zones again, so the score now sat at 3-2 in my favour. Pigs Turn 4 I dropped Death March, though not until one of the last two remaining Brigands killed a Marauder. I was a bit unlucky with fire rolls and lost most of the models on the right flank. Midas tossed Calamity onto the Marauders and sat on his two remaining Fury. A Slaughterhouser killed Jussika, and the Brigands, Bone Grinders, and Slaughterhousers left on that flank killed off most of the unit there. Brigands trashed the Deathripper with gun shots with some very lucky attack rolls on the left with their Hog Wild shots and then killed most of the remaining Smog Belchers, moving in to contest my opponent's zone. I ran two Slaughterhousers on the left flank to stand on opposite sides of the Hag at maximum melee range so if she moved to attack either of them she would cop a free strike. I scored my zone and contested my opponent's, so the score went to 4-2 in my favour. Cryx Turn 4 Rahera killed the War Hog and Gun Boar and sprinted to engage Midas. The Marauders killed the Warlord of the right-hand Brigand unit. I can't recall what the Smog Belcher did exactly, but it wasn't particularly important. I scored my own zone, bringing the score to 5-2. Pigs Turn 5 I was feeling a bit silly so I had Midas cast Battle Lust and Death March on himself, Curse Rahera, and charge her. With his three attacks he managed to drop her to about five boxes. He Feated the Gun Boar and War Hog back to life behind her. The War Hog Aggression Dialed and missed all its attacks and then died to its own Dial. A pair of Valkyries finished her off. I'm still getting taken off guard on occasion at how reasonable this list plays into anti-infantry pieces. A lot of it is sheer quantity of models and attacks. Brigands with Vengeance putting out 2-3 attacks apiece each round means that a shattered unit can still wipe out most of whatever just attacked them, and while the opponent is struggling to get through the first wave there are second and third waves of models moving into position behind them. Still very much not my play style, however. There's a tournament on tomorrow and I have a shiny new Boomhowler Solo Artist and Hermit of Henge Hold, so I'll be putting them through their paces. Plan on running Arkadius and Sturm and Drang, but still mulling over the latter a little. The lists as they currently stand are: Arkadius -War Hog -War Hog -Road Hog -Road Hog -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Gorax -Targ Bellows Crew Mire -Blackhide Wrastler Boomhowler2 Kwaak and Gub Hermit of Henge Hold Gobber Chef I'll add the Witch Doctor back into the list when the Void Archons come out to replace Mire and the Wrastler. In the meantime, I really want to test out the combination of Kwaak, Hermit, and Boomhowler. I think they all bounce off one another in really pleasing ways, and this list has some random defensive cloud wall potential which should be fun to experiment with. Sturm and Drang, meanwhile, are currently a barely altered version of the older list with: Sturm and Drang -War Hog -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Soul Slave Bellows Crew Mire -Dracodile Dahlia -Skarath Brun -Lug Eilish Orin I'm considering trading Eilish and Orin for Boomhowler and the Hermit, just to test out that combination. From a serious list pairing perspective, the spell hate offered by Eilish and Orin are probably straight up better. They're more likely to cover holes in the match-ups, that kind of thing. That said, Boomie and the Hermit add a lot to the list in match-ups where anti-spell tech isn't important. Even if I don't end up running them in the list tomorrow, I certainly plan to occasionally when I get the opportunity.
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