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Post by bluebarren on Jun 7, 2017 22:33:29 GMT
I don't like the jr at all, fire group is cute, rift is not...seems like he likes chargers, hunters and grenadiers meh. Definitely a cool looking model I like the new Journeyman... Rift could as well not be there, but having Fire Group and the ability to fill a jack after it is pretty nice, expecially on a piece that can dig in and so survive without camping. I can see quite a lot of jacks that could be nice on him, even some Character ones in the vague eventuality of ever playing out of theme... Also consider, now we have the chance to stack Snipe and Fire Group on the same model for +6 range... I can see quite a lot of Cygnar jacks that could do wonders with +6" range... Good points, I gues he's not bad, Definitely survivable, and there's also definitely some synergy, but overall I don't see the point outside of theme.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 7, 2017 22:33:42 GMT
Actually, I could see him running a Colossal...
+2 (or +6 with a caster with Snipe) RNG on a colossal is very nice, as is the ability to fuel them without using the caster focus.
Dig In is a quite nice defensive mechanism for a model that is going to stay 8" behind the colossal, and with Arlan you could actually even camp a focus after using Fire Group and filling the big one.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 7, 2017 22:40:29 GMT
Actually, I could see him running a Colossal... +2 (or +6 with a caster with Snipe) RNG on a colossal is very nice, as is the ability to fuel them without using the caster focus. Dig In is a quite nice defensive mechanism for a model that is going to stay 8" behind the colossal, and with Arlan you could actually even camp a focus after using Fire Group and filling the big one. That's a lot of points in warjacks that aren't in heavy metal.
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Alealexi
BattleBox Champ
Burning heritecs and wracking as always... it's a personal hobby.
Posts: 55
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Post by Alealexi on Jun 8, 2017 0:02:37 GMT
I like the new Journeyman... Rift could as well not be there, but having Fire Group and the ability to fill a jack after it is pretty nice, expecially on a piece that can dig in and so survive without camping. I can see quite a lot of jacks that could be nice on him, even some Character ones in the vague eventuality of ever playing out of theme... Also consider, now we have the chance to stack Snipe and Fire Group on the same model for +6 range... I can see quite a lot of Cygnar jacks that could do wonders with +6" range... Personally, I don't care for it. Fire group is worthwhile with lots of jacks, but I don't see him running more than 2. And most of our jacks already shoot plenty far. He might be ok with an avenger. Not saying he's bad. But I doubt he'll do more than be a jack battery. I could see a lot of people running two hunters or chargers with him.
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Post by jpgreat1 on Jun 8, 2017 0:30:24 GMT
My 1st thoughts on the whole Trencher CID
Siege2 looks interesting but his feat needs something alittle extra and I also don't get the idea behind Hallowed Avenger, its something I will never cast. The Turret needs more range and rof 2.
Long Gunners seem better at cheaper points but still need help.
Chain Gun Crew need a small increase in range.
Commandos are perfect!
Triumph needs ROF 2 and not that rapid fire rule.
Dog seems really good! Wish it was FA 2, if it becomes FA 2 then it needs its noisy rule to detect stealth at 5" as oppose to 8"
Trencher Express team need Prey. Unit is pretty unusable.
Trencher Long Gunners are perfect.
Not sure what to think of Hitch
Blockhouse should have been named Pillbox...
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Post by gobber on Jun 8, 2017 0:36:38 GMT
Feat seems pretty good when stacked on top of reposition or clouds. Any trencher unit with help from Hitch can back off 5" and dig in. Commandos/Finn/Thorns+Gibbs can back off 6"; regular longgunners theoretically 8". At the very least it can be a 3" threat extender even if you don't use the dig in benefit.
Turret+coveringfire/razorwall+clouds seems like a solid combo as well. Sets up a challenge similar to Zerkova's Legion of steel, where attempting to cross the clouds triggers incoming attacks. Between stormwall and free chain guns there are plenty of ways to stack templates.
Murdoch+Sea Dogs might not be so bad after all. Assault gives them an extra pistol shot; Fury pumps their melee to a ps13 charge and ps15 point blank shot (avg 5.5 dmg each to khador heavies). Access to rangers can help accuracy (esp on the rifles). Hitch's battle plans aren't terrible on them either (assuming the model/unit interaction still works).
Thorns still seem like the best option though; 9 thunderbolt shots on the charge is entertaining.
Also, Triumph already got updated: now gets boosted damage rolls (not attack). Rapid fire shot is much more useful now. Also notable: with just the powerup focus, it can trample for a 24" threat range and get a boosted damage roll. This could even be jacked up to 30" using a snipe caster and trencher junior, which is 1" out of enemy deployment. Sadly this doesn't work in heavy metal (non-character heavies). Lanyssa and Sturgis can theoretically extend this a bit further once they can reach enemy models, but I can't see that game state coming up very often.
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Torres
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 2
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Post by Torres on Jun 8, 2017 1:50:11 GMT
Actually, I could see him running a Colossal... +2 (or +6 with a caster with Snipe) RNG on a colossal is very nice, as is the ability to fuel them without using the caster focus. Dig In is a quite nice defensive mechanism for a model that is going to stay 8" behind the colossal, and with Arlan you could actually even camp a focus after using Fire Group and filling the big one. That's a lot of points in warjacks that aren't in heavy metal. You can use him in Heavy Metal. I was thinking about pStryker double Stormwall (one on the new Trencher JWC) with him instead of Jakes. 25" of Big Guns threat and double Arcane Shield? Sounds cool. It's also a lot less risky with him than colossal on JWC/Jakes and I did just that in a couple of games
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Post by gunmageintraining on Jun 8, 2017 2:35:03 GMT
Have Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenades always been pow 10 blast? I remember they used to be far weaker, as they are now... they are actually worth taking. Pow 10 explosions are definitely worth looking into and one of our strongest blast effects currently.
Edit: After going through it... my commments.
Siege 2 - Ehh... not overly impressed. A full trencher force seems to have lots of movement abilities and he just stacks on that rather than improving their ranged game in any way. Fury isn't a bad idea, save... well... Pow 11 trenchers do not impress. It's good on just about any of our other melee forces though.
His rocket turret is not impressive. Range isn't bad, ROF is unimpressive, damage is lackluster without ability to boost and accuracy is poor. Just meh really, especially as it requires a full turn before you can shoot.
Commandos are still in this place that needs to be fixed. They really just need to be reworked to have ambush. Change them in some other ways maybe, but they need something to really set them apart from trenchers. Anatomical Precision isn't going to cut it, and their offensive firepower is very weak. Stealth is of course nice in Cygnar, but I'm not really seeing their value.
Blockhouse... interesting, free trenches interesting... probably will depend heavily on scenario if they are viable. Weapon isn't bad either for what it is, but I don't expect to really see many. Why take a blockhouse when you could just take a whole extra unit of trenchers.
Trencher Chain Gun - Not bad, can see an interesting advance with chainguns advancing and laying down their walls followed by the trenchers advancing and popping the smokewall, infantry will be screwed, but vs that many trenchers? They kind of already were. A Pow bonus would be nice, make it designed to take out things like MOWs and Cataphrats.
Trencher Cannon - Still unimpressed, but I guess with a master gunner it becomes something noteworthy for harder targets. 2 pow 13 brutals a turn? Not bad really...
Dog - can only have one, but it's very useful
Murdoc - Probably going to be thorn gunners as others have said, though something to be said for Forgeguard. They are pretty safe behind a smokewall, and there are lots of potential movement shennanigans to pull with them. (Fury & Desperate Pace from Siege 2? along with all those repositions?)
Express Gunner team - unimpressed. A bit more accurate, and thunderbolts are interesting, could play merry havoc with big things, but it's not going to really hurt them.
As a whole, the theme will still need heavy armor to deal with heavy armor. Plinking and CRAing isn't going to cut it.
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 8, 2017 2:45:10 GMT
Yes, they have. Since the beginning of Mk3.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 8, 2017 2:45:23 GMT
I'm more worried that they didn't feel the need to change our artillery at all...
Does someone play them?
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 8, 2017 2:51:25 GMT
I'm more worried that they didn't feel the need to change our artillery at all... Does someone play them? Just fine to me. POW 13 Brutal helps out my armor cracking, and the covering fire stops single wound chargers from reaching my trenchers.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Jun 8, 2017 2:55:20 GMT
Some fun stuff I thunk of Forget about a defensive feat, Sieges feat is also a 3" speed buff!! So that's a 12" threat range from stormblades! Or 13" charge from sword Knights! Or 15" charge from trenchers! (With desperate pace) Or 14.5" charge from commandos! Who then throw pow 14 bombs/sprays at their prey target who's <6" from their charge targets! Etc Siege himself has a 15" threat range from his feat He gets to do a super smoke wall for at least a turn with regular trenchers! Spell list is...cool? Fury - cool HA - can't complain Razor wall - sweet! Rift - but why? UF - Cool!...I think... There's lots of jank in this caster, and it makes the Kraye player in me very happy. Idk how to feel about the turret, I guess it can be a good guard dog for flags, but other than that it suffers from the same issues as the old light artillery models (though it's essentially free) nice gun if not for the short range. The structure seems pretty cool (not against siege 1 haha) nice gun, cool recursion and trenches popping out of it, it's not even that expensive! - can it aim?? The dog what is stealth?! Like mkii Cygnar, but with less tri-corn hats necessary!! I would kinda think speed 7, 5" bubble makes more sense, but I'm not complaining about spd6, 8" bubble Reposition 2" is weird! But I get it! Can't let trenchers walk out of their smoke with everyone, then it'd be Cygnar Christmas forever! Commando UA, I honestly can't complain, I like him! Quick work on a unit that pretty much auto kills grunts in melee is pretty sweet, pair that with prey for a turn and you can potentially kill SO much stuff! Charge one unit, prey a nearby one, as you chop down one unit you shoot into the other, keep Finn around so you're swinging at mat 8, shooting at rat 9 The weapon crew...idk it's hard to complain about always dug in rng14 pow14 rat5 w/ 3 dice to hit, but it seems lacking, probably will change my tune when I test it. Trencher long gunners still have that annoying dual shot ability, but are way scarier and more survivable than the vanilla ones, probably worth the "extra" points. I don't like the jr at all, fire group is cute, rift is not...seems like he likes chargers, hunters and grenadiers meh. Definitely a cool looking model Grenades have the cumbersome rule and their knives are weapons so you can't use them to quick work sadly. The sprays from the WAs are a neat thought though.
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Post by Aegis on Jun 8, 2017 3:00:30 GMT
I'm more worried that they didn't feel the need to change our artillery at all... Does someone play them? Just fine to me. POW 13 Brutal helps out my armor cracking, and the covering fire stops single wound chargers from reaching my trenchers. cryptix you play Cygnar? o,O And anyway, sure, if only there wasn't much better guns for both armor cracking and infantry management I would agree...
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Post by Cryptix on Jun 8, 2017 3:19:42 GMT
Just fine to me. POW 13 Brutal helps out my armor cracking, and the covering fire stops single wound chargers from reaching my trenchers. cryptix you play Trenchers? o,O And anyway, sure, if only there wasn't much better guns for both armor cracking and infantry management I would agree... Fixed that for you. And I literally only own Siege1, 2 units of Trenchers with all the bells and whistles, finn, 2 trench busters, a max unit of commandos, 2 of each weapon crew, and 8 grenadiers so....
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Jun 8, 2017 3:43:00 GMT
That's a lot of points in warjacks that aren't in heavy metal. You can use him in Heavy Metal. I was thinking about pStryker double Stormwall (one on the new Trencher JWC) with him instead of Jakes. 25" of Big Guns threat and double Arcane Shield? Sounds cool. It's also a lot less risky with him than colossal on JWC/Jakes and I did just that in a couple of games ooh, sorry. I forgot Heavy Metal included any battlegroup controllers. (I thought it called out Junior and Jakes secifically) Ok. I can see some potential for him if you're going double colossal. I'd try a hurricane with him. Snipe+Fire group could actually be pretty nice. And you can arc rift through it in corner case interactions.
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