Provengreil
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Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 28, 2017 17:09:46 GMT
Theorycrafting a Reznik 1 list that I want to bring to a local tournament, but to me it isn't quite there yet. Critiques appreciated.
Reznik 1, Exemplar Interdiction -Devout -Reckoner -Sanctifier -Redeemer -Revenger -Purifier Reclaimer solo, free Vassal 2X Wrack Choir, Max Choir, Min Max Errants W/UA
My thoughts on the High Executioner are that he wants a solid battlegroup, but not a whole field of them. The reckoner only needs, at most, one extra focus (vassal), the sanctifier will pull souls from errants before he starts to fight, and the redeemer can home in on anything hit by brand of heresy instead of gulping down focus. The extra choirboys are there for flexibility in the buffs, some souls for the reclaimer solo so he can give Reznik future sight every turn, and some redundancy. The Purifier is there instead of a devout + wrack because chain weapon makes it ever so slightly better at fighting, and with perdition I don't think I'll need much more in the way of movement shenanigans. I'm hoping to pre-emptively shut down pretty much all casting from my opponent, as many upkeeps won't work, targeting my battlegroup has heavy repercussions, and I can still hex blast something right back off anyway. If I can reduce a caster to a walking feat + any auras, I can take a lot of oomph from a lot of lists.
It's in theme instead of changing errants to idrians, dropping 2 choirboys, and going dervish loses me blessed, 2 inch deployment, and easy souls on turn 1, which I value more than slightly better skirmishing capability.
Before anyone recommends it, I do not own Scourge of Heresy, or it'd be here somewhere.
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Post by knapsen on May 28, 2017 20:55:08 GMT
sounds all in all very solid. but the lack of pathfinder in your list could become be a drawback. With which list you want to pair Reznik1?
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 28, 2017 22:37:04 GMT
sounds all in all very solid. but the lack of pathfinder in your list could become be a drawback. With which list you want to pair Reznik1? Gonna be Amon. Frankly, I'm counting on fuel cache and favorable terrain for pathfinder, because that's a known issue with the themes, and the faction as a whole.
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Post by macdaddy on May 29, 2017 1:24:20 GMT
He's honestly really really good with a combined arms BG in Creators might. Redeemers are cool I've never had much luck though. Even with Brand mine always miss...(I have horrible luck with them)
My current list is 6 Heavies in Creators might. He's actually surprisingly OK into Haley 2 and some gunlines. Witch Hound is actually awesome in a lot of cases and witch Hound with Scourge, 2 Reckoners, or a vanquisher is just glorious. I've only played the Haley 2 match up once though. I lost but it was close. (SR2016) Don't think he really needs a screen but if you are I would say errabts without the UA are better than with. IMO what makes Idrians flat better is the UA. If you want a cheap screen errants can screen well for cheap and you don't have to invest 20 points into them.
He may have game with Exemplar theme as well run a combined arms list with some Knights supported by long range blessed jack shooting. Issue is he does nothing for Knights other than Ignite. But blessed Guns and Brand seem like a cool combo.
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Provengreil
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Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 29, 2017 2:11:26 GMT
He's honestly really really good with a combined arms BG in Creators might. Redeemers are cool I've never had much luck though. Even with Brand mine always miss...(I have horrible luck with them) My current list is 6 Heavies in Creators might. He's actually surprisingly OK into Haley 2 and some gunlines. Witch Hound is actually awesome in a lot of cases and witch Hound with Scourge, 2 Reckoners, or a vanquisher is just glorious. I've only played the Haley 2 match up once though. I lost but it was close. (SR2016) Don't think he really needs a screen but if you are I would say errabts without the UA are better than with. IMO what makes Idrians flat better is the UA. If you want a cheap screen errants can screen well for cheap and you don't have to invest 20 points into them. He may have game with Exemplar theme as well run a combined arms list with some Knights supported by long range blessed jack shooting. Issue is he does nothing for Knights other than Ignite. But blessed Guns and Brand seem like a cool combo. Surprisingly OK? Tk is a straight up no, Dominate is a risky proposition, and perdition has a significant effect on her feat, to say nothing of what his character jack can do. I'd say he's our best response in the matchup. On topic: Reznik has a lot to do and a very low focus value for it. He's dropping 2 focus for perdition, 1 or 2 (I end up swapping it a LOT) for ignite, and/or 3 for brand of heresy or spell attack boosts. That's his whole stack and a wrack, with no camp, and he has yet to fuel the battlegroup. There's just no room for hex blast, so ignoring most upkeeps is great. There's also no room for any more warjacks that need focus: I would even marshal the redeemer if I didn't want the BOH backup for a prime target. That brings me to the Jack selection: devouts don't need focus while perdition is still helpful, the revenger is just trying to not get engaged, the sanctifier fuels itself, and the reckoner is attached to the vassal to double boost the gun without input. In essence, he commands 6 jacks but must only fuel 2, one of which is only getting one big turn. As for errants vs knights or idrians, it's one squad vs two for ignite, and the points come out to 20 for the free, and necessary, reclaimer. Future sight is a potential conservation of focus that Reznik cannot afford to ignore. They also get more souls for 20 points than any other 20 point combination of exemplar, which is a small but important detail here. Self sacrifice makes sure they die in a good order for me, keeping certain specific ones standing. Finally, during an important turn against a caster that witch hound is good for, they can force the caster to cast at the jacks or not at all. Idrians are better, in general: I know this. They are NOT better, however, than errants + 2 inch deploy + blessed jacks + 1 free reclaimer. I didn't consider the vanquisher though. I rarely play Malekus but have access to 2 sunburst pieces, so I often overlook it. Swapping the redeemer and purifier in for a vanq has a bonus on focus efficiency, since it so often only needs its powerup focus, and diminishes the need for quite so many choirboys. I could add some mechanics in for the cost. I'm reasonably confident that the amon list will work appropriately, so I'll try to play it both ways before the tourney.
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Post by knapsen on May 29, 2017 6:58:48 GMT
I also playing Amon und looking for a list to pair with him. Especially against Cygnar with all the disruption stuff a non-melee-BG is needed. So I ended up in Vindictus Exemplar Theme first at all. But your list here also looks good against Cygnar stuff.
Cygnar also has problems to give pathfinder to their Lances and Jacks. So both have the same problem and your list can work maybe. Ignoring Arcance Shield due to blessed at BG weapons also sounds nice. The other thing are the Storm Lances!! When they are reaching the Errants, they'll kill all of them in one turn (Assault and Arcs).
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 29, 2017 12:42:13 GMT
I also playing Amon und looking for a list to pair with him. Especially against Cygnar with all the disruption stuff a non-melee-BG is needed. So I ended up in Vindictus Exemplar Theme first at all. But your list here also looks good against Cygnar stuff. Cygnar also has problems to give pathfinder to their Lances and Jacks. So both have the same problem and your list can work maybe. Ignoring Arcance Shield due to blessed at BG weapons also sounds nice. The other thing are the Storm Lances!! When they are reaching the Errants, they'll kill all of them in one turn (Assault and Arcs). Yeah, the lightning arcs are a thing. I'm not quite sure how to deal with that here, but luckily no one in my meta owns any lances yet. If nothing else I'll have to spread super wide.
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Post by knapsen on May 29, 2017 12:58:15 GMT
Uff. Here in Europe they are in every second Cygnar list. I'm coming from Trolls atm and know the problem with the arcs. Especially to keep my stone save. I think with good positioning (maybe the Sanctifier in the middle) it is possible not arc to other Errants. It's like a boring "mini-game" against Cygnar. Keep in mind, that the Sanctifier collects souls also when it is no enemy attack!!!
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Post by alanryan on May 30, 2017 13:19:56 GMT
i don't think Purifier and sanctifier is good with reznik1. why don't use SoH and more redeemer?
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Post by knapsen on May 30, 2017 14:14:56 GMT
Shooting against 5 to 10 DEF13 Lances with RAT1 (3 when aiming), also boosted, is more like brrrrr. You only have 1 turn to kill all of them, if depending on shootie!
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 30, 2017 15:23:02 GMT
i don't think Purifier and sanctifier is good with reznik1. why don't use SoH and more redeemer? Scourge would be fine, if I owned one. Redeemers get more focus hungry than BoH would lead you to expect, since they tend to finish off a target well before 2 of them and the reckoner are done, and he does NOT have the focus to deal with that.
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Post by alanryan on May 30, 2017 23:53:19 GMT
i don't think Purifier and sanctifier is good with reznik1. why don't use SoH and more redeemer? Scourge would be fine, if I owned one. Redeemers get more focus hungry than BoH would lead you to expect, since they tend to finish off a target well before 2 of them and the reckoner are done, and he does NOT have the focus to deal with that. why use focus? you can use spell to let theme all boost
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Post by alanryan on May 30, 2017 23:57:22 GMT
Shooting against 5 to 10 DEF13 Lances with RAT1 (3 when aiming), also boosted, is more like brrrrr. You only have 1 turn to kill all of them, if depending on shootie! if against cygnar(stormlance), i think maybe dervish is better than sanctifier. with spell, it could easy to kill stormlance, and cheap than sanctifier. and with vassal(if have), they have more chance to survive in stormlance's charge
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 31, 2017 0:25:29 GMT
Scourge would be fine, if I owned one. Redeemers get more focus hungry than BoH would lead you to expect, since they tend to finish off a target well before 2 of them and the reckoner are done, and he does NOT have the focus to deal with that. why use focus? you can use spell to let theme all boost UH.....because the redeemers will finish off the target well before all their boosts. Like my post said. I've seen a myrmidon go down to just one of them, and frankly a dervish would have done it easier and cheaper. 2 redeemers + Brand of Heresy is overkill on anything except casters and colossals. And, I guess, the new battle engines.
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Post by alanryan on May 31, 2017 1:14:05 GMT
why use focus? you can use spell to let theme all boost UH.....because the redeemers will finish off the target well before all their boosts. Like my post said. I've seen a myrmidon go down to just one of them, and frankly a dervish would have done it easier and cheaper. 2 redeemers + Brand of Heresy is overkill on anything except casters and colossals. And, I guess, the new battle engines. my english is poor so i can't understand you clearly but i think your mean is 2 redeemer is good? so why just use 1?
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