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Post by custardboy on Jun 30, 2017 13:14:11 GMT
Hahaha that's beautiful. What a win. But yeah, that list is basically why I'm not unhappy to be testing new Midas lists right about now. Bone Grinders basically guarantee that you never see a Makeda and she's so often paired with Zaadesh or another 'beast Warlock. Yeah I would have liked to have Midas there. The matchup was manageable regardless though, and his rate of toughs was around 60℅ which was hard to plan around. I'm actually finding writing this up to be very valuable. I'm seeing mistakes I made (and mt opponents) that I didn't realise during/after the game. I think in future if I want to be more competitive I'll write down reports even if not showing people to make me think about it more critically.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 1, 2017 8:35:15 GMT
I'm actually finding writing this up to be very valuable. I'm seeing mistakes I made (and mt opponents) that I didn't realise during/after the game. I think in future if I want to be more competitive I'll write down reports even if not showing people to make me think about it more critically. That´s a pretty good point. I do not have the time to write down bat reps, but I often take pictures of crucial turns BEFORE I start with the action. That gives me the chance to try out different alternative moves to get the best result. I learn a lot from this. Often an other order of activations results in higher expecting damage. Or you can get a better understanding of good model placement. In my last game with Arkadius for example I could have removed one additional beast in my feat turn which would have given me superiority in attrition. In my last game with Carver against Zaadesh2 this gave me a better understanding of countercharge and how to circumvent it.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 6, 2017 23:53:32 GMT
Doing write-ups with Arkadius in particular is probably important for mastering him!
Malaysian Masters is in a week! I found Carver pretty boring last time around and I'm not THAT concerned about winning so I think I'll roll with Helga/Arkadius. Midas would be stronger but I don't have the models for the list I want to use with him and his Skornergistic abilities frustrate me. Sturm and Drang would have been an option if it wasn't for the battle engines I expect to make a vigorous comeback.
I found the third Road Hog to be a bit redundant with Arkadius so he's being replaced with Rorsh and Brine and a Gobber Chef. Arkadius, 2 road hogs, 3 war hogs, 2 goraxes, r&b, chef.
Helga I think will either need slaughterhousers or heavies for the battle engine and anti-battle engine stuff I'm likely to see. Arkadius is straight up better with heavies so I think I'll give the 'housers a go. Helga, road hog, gun boar, splatter boar, battle boar, 2x min brigands+UA, min bone grinders, 3x slaughterhousers, Victor Pendrake, 2x efaarit.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 8, 2017 9:24:14 GMT
Helga I think will either need slaughterhousers or heavies for the battle engine and anti-battle engine stuff I'm likely to see. Arkadius is straight up better with heavies so I think I'll give the 'housers a go. Helga, road hog, gun boar, splatter boar, battle boar, 2x min brigands+UA, min bone grinders, 3x slaughterhousers, Victor Pendrake, 2x efaarit. I´m not sure I´d like to run 3x Slaughterhousers. IMO they are overcosted and hard to deliver. I´d rather run 2 full Brigands with UA and 2x Slaughterhousers.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 9, 2017 10:56:39 GMT
I am very much of the opinion that slaughterhousers are overcosted! I actually have the option of just taking a boatload of bone grinders instead, but the damage against warmachine is something that concerns me. Things that kill slaughterhousers generally kill brigands too as they don't often get to dig in, then the tradeoff is only 2 bodies (and 1 point lost) to ensure I have sufficient damage. One road hog and 12 slaughterhousers doesn't feel like enough... Honestly a big reason for this is Karchev. There is so much Khador around. I don't think Arkadius can push that game out against a good player, his damage is too focused. As a note, defenders ward isn't really a factor in max vs min size as I generally keep it on Helga unless there is a particular reason not to. Or maybe I should just take 26 bone grinders and roll with Midas instead?
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Jul 10, 2017 15:22:35 GMT
Honestly a big reason for this is Karchev. There is so much Khador around. I don't think Arkadius can push that game out against a good player, his damage is too focused. Or maybe I should just take 26 bone grinders and roll with Midas instead? The first time I played Midas into Karchev with Heavy spam, I almost won. I deployed my Commandoes on the wrong side, which meant that he won on scenario but I had the damage output to play that game. I also used Battle Lust too much. It would have been much better to put Calamity on a Heavy since that would have added damage from my shooting (2 Efaarit Scouts, 2 Gun Boars, and 2 Razorback Crews). The main problem was that three full units of infantry (double Brigands + UA and Commandoes) was pretty time-consuming to play (especially due to Hog Wild), so I am currently considering a Meat Thresher (even though it is probably the inferior solution into Karchev).
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Post by custardboy on Jul 11, 2017 1:23:30 GMT
Yeah a heavy shooting Midas list would work pretty well for it. I don't own a second (or third) gun boar for him unfortunately, hangover from MK2. Maybe if they have one in stock I can quickly assemble it and roll with that- there is no painting requirement In which case it would be something like... Midas, 2 gun boars, 3 splatter boars, 2x max brigands+UA, 5x min bone grinders, razorback. Actually that seems really funny.
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regleant
Junior Strategist
Sometimes things go right
Posts: 267
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Post by regleant on Jul 20, 2017 5:17:29 GMT
And..., how was the Malaysian Master's?
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Post by custardboy on Jul 20, 2017 12:51:23 GMT
I was actually just trying to make imageshack work to sort this out! Malaysia Masters was on the weekend and was great fun. Many, many Skorne-related jokes were made. I ended up bringing along my Helga and Arkadius lists. Arkadius with 3 war hogs, 2 road hogs, 2 goraxes, Rorsh and Brine and a chef. Helga with road hog, gun boar, splatter boar, battle boar, 2x min brigands+UA, min bone grinders, 3x slaughterhousers, 2x efaarit, Pendrake. Game 1 Recon Denny1 Ghost Fleet vs Helga. Yup, that's my round 1. He won the roll and took first turn. I deployed Helga towards one flank as I knew I'd have to go for scenario. Splatter boar and gun boar were central to use my Armoury objective. My brigand units preyed a node each. He ran forward, his wraith engine which was central pretty much gunning to contest both the zone and the flag Helga was going for. I ran up, I was only really concerned about not being in aiming range of the pistols or charge of the blackbanes. I'm happy for revenants to charge or shoot with rifles. I was more cautious than usual with Helga due to Scourge. I screw up by not quite getting my road hog within 4" of the objective. His wraith engine runs to the contest position and he puts some shooting into my bone grinders as my source of magic attacks rather than the slaughterhousers. Some revenants walk into melee with an efaarit and bring it to 1 box. I can't dislodge the wraith engine so Helga just upkeeps, casts dash, kills 2 revenants jamming a slaughterhouser and sprints away. That slaughterhouser is able to get to the revenant leader to rfp and all but 1 is killed, who is jammed in by an efaarit. The road hog and a few dashed brigands are able to take down their node prey, they switch to the 1 revenant so I can kill him and decide later what is good. The gun boar gets magical weapons and lucky shot and shoots down Blackbane. The splatter boar corrodes a stalker and does slight damage, then a slaughterhouser charges and nearly kills it. I largely ignore the revenants unless a slaughterhouser can get in or I need to clear space. 2 bone grinders and Pendrake charge the wraith engine and do a bit. He feats this turn. A bunch of my infantry die but not as much as I would think. He puts some shots into the beasts and they are hurt but live. The wraith engine kills the dudes engaging it and makes a machine wraith, but moves back out of contesting my flag so the road hog can't get him. A pistol wraith moves up to join the machine wraith contesting. The lone revenant somehow kills the efaarit jamming him. A good portion of my stuff was too far for his feat, I was spread out. I need to start scoring. The brigands kill the one revenant, switch prey to the wraith engine and do some damage to it. My other efaarit shoots it. 2 slaughterhousers then kill it, another runs to engage the machine wraith for Helga's gang. The surviving bone grinder gets lucky and kills his pistol wraith (Helga could reach him anyway). Helga charges the machine wraith, I mean to kill him and sprint to the flag. Miss, miss, miss, hit. She doesn't have enough fury left to tank a scourge, the shooting and a stalker to the face any more. I have to sprint to safety instead of the flag. A few surviving brigands shoot their prey node. My beasts use drifts and a spray to kill a stalker. Time is getting very low for both of us. Denny runs to the other flag. A bunch of my dudes die. 0-1. Helga gets to her flag, contests Denny, a bunch of her dudes die. 1-1. Denny sits on her flag, kills my contesting dude, contests my flag and jams me. 1-2. Helga clears those dudes, can't contest Denny, kills the objective. 3-3. Denny sits on her flag, jams me again. 3-4. Helga sends a trampling road hog and efaarit to contest Denny, clears her flag again. 4-4. Denny can't kill the road hog but it doesn't matter. He jams the road hog and Helga with every surviving model and switches clock. I clock out, he had about 30 seconds left.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 20, 2017 12:59:30 GMT
Game 2 was incursion. My opponent had Haley2 and Jakes2, I didn't like Helga into Haley so we ended up with Arkadius vs Jakes2 Heavy Metal. This was one of those games where your opponent doesn't know Arkadius and it ends up a bit one sided. I had first turn and ran forward, put Forced Evolution on Brine, Rorsh using Diversionary Tactic to get Brine up there. He ran forward and shot Brine a little who moved up with Hyper Aggressive. A Centurion got its polarity shield and Arcane Shield. This was the start of my second turn. Rorsh got to a flag and shot two mechanics, Brine to killed the charger. I used a road hog to clear a few sword knights, moved the chef to a beacon position, primalled two of the war hogs, cycled Forced Evo, stabbed the other road hog for raw adrenaline and feated. The road hog with adrenaline failed a charge by blocking with one of my models, then sprayed down I think 6 sword knights and Runewood in its activation, one primalled war hog got into a Hammersmith and killed it, the one with primal and forced evolution bounced off my gobber chef to get into walking range of the centurion which I got lucky and killed. My third hog flailed against a lancer, doing about 1/2 its hp. I had the goraxes frenzy away from Arkadius as I didn't want to deal with electro leaps from her feat. The writing was on the wall at this point. He feated and killed a road hog, war hog and gorax. He used mechanics to prevent hyper aggressive+retaliatory which was clever. On my turn a primalled hog frenzied to a position that prevented me getting to Jakes. Rorsh shot a firefly in the back and did 18 damage- whoa! Brine trampled and ate mechanics. Road hog walked to a flag and sprayed down the last 2 sword knights. A war hog finished the lancer and charger. Jakes then went in with Thunderhead to see what points she could grab, ended up killing two war hogs. Arkadius hit her with Crippling Grasp and Rorsh shot her in the back.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 20, 2017 13:06:09 GMT
Game 3 was entrenched, my opponent had Butcher2 with 2 gun carriages and a few jacks and Sorsha1 with arcing fire/sprays plus doom reavers. He'd used Sorsha twice already so I expected Butcher and dropped Arkadius. He chose Sorsha again who I would have preferred Helga into. Ah well. His deployment was on a mat, behind the doom reavers. I got first turn and ran forward, again pushing Brine harder up with Forced Evolution into range of a few doom reavers. It was supposed to be 1-2 and ended up with 3. The doom reavers charged and they all missed. Other stuff went forward but didn't do much, the gun carriage put down some rough terrain. I spent my next turn clearing out doom reavers with sprays, melee and Rorsh shooting and minimising the number that could attack in return. Arkadius hung back with 4 transfers behind a gorax after hitting both road hogs with raw adrenaline. This went very well, the next turn only 3 doom reavers were able to get to anything. One road hog did a raw adrenaline assault spray, killed the guy standing next to his assault target with melee then sprinted in front of the gun carriage. I needed to prevent it going everywhere. On his turn he had the doom reavers charge which didn't do much of note and the gun carriage knocked down and shot up the blocking road hog. He decided he was boned at this point as he was about to lose a whole lot of stuff and hadn't killed anything. He went for assassination. Sorsha cast boundless charge, charged in, cyclones up just into range of Arkadius, feated and wailed on him. I took the first two hits taking him to 1hp before transferring the other 2. He couldn't hit Arkadius with the destroyers so shot my gorax and boosted blast damage. I transferred to the gorax from the first one so the second shot killed it and gave me another two fury. He then only had a spray donkey to hit me with but I still had two transfers. That was very close. Sorsha got killed by a hog obviously.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 20, 2017 13:13:05 GMT
Game 4 was take and hold with Zaadesh2 with a bunch of titans and a murder turtle and Makeda2 with kitties. Easy choice, Helga. He went with Zaadesh2. I got first turn and ran forward. I didn't really 'unpack' my army as he didn't have AoEs. I put Defenders Ward onto the road hog. Left brigands put prey on the bronze back, right on the turtle. Those are both forests in the middle. The turtle trampled up, shot a slaughterhouser or two and repositioned back. His other stuff ran. My army mostly ran forward, the efaarit and a few brigands took pot shots. Helga put Muzzle onto Tiberion. The gun boar killed a paingiver leader with a Lucky Shot drift, screwing up formation. The splatter boar hit nothing with Lucky Shot psychoactive gas. I put the splatter boar and battle boar in range of the animantrax, I wanted it to trade them for it. The turtle went in and killed the splatter boar and a couple of slaughterhousers but not the battle boar. A sentry ran to follow it, blocking me getting around the forest. Zaadesh, the gladiator and bronze back took the flag behind the forest. Tiberion charged at some bone grinders away from Helga. My brigands, slaughterhousers, road hog and battle boar were able to kill the turtle and do about 1/2 HP to the sentry. Tibbers had another bone grinder add fury. Helga charged the sentry to toe the forest, hit the gladiator with Muzzle, added a fury to the sentry and cycloned back on 0 behind a mass of dudes and a forest between her and Zaadesh and his titans. I shot the bronzeback a little and charged a slaughterhouser into it. Zaadesh countercharged. Zaadesh could now see Helga. That was my last activation. He thought about it for a while, decided it was his only shot so charged, feated and killed her. That was my game to lose, I figured nothing would get to her that game without me knowing about it so put Defenders Ward on something other than her. I do that about once in every 8 games and it means I WILL lose. Someday that lesson will really stick.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Jul 20, 2017 18:27:19 GMT
Nice batreps! I really love Helga, but she´s the warlock I´m least successfull with. Guess I´ll have to give her another try tomorrow.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 20, 2017 22:09:54 GMT
Game 5 was (scenario) with Fyanna2 and Lylyth3. We got Helga vs Fyanna2. I hit a neraph and a sorceress with prey. He got first and ran forward with all his beasts toeing the zone. Iron Flesh on Fyanna, Admonition on an angel, fury on a neraph. I ran forward, using Dash to let an efaarit get a decent shot into a neraph. My beasts held back a little more, I think the splatter boar missed his gas drift and the gun boar did a bit of damage with his. I put the road hog in threat of the preyed neraph as I wanted to draw it in. He'd have to clear a few dudes and I'd get a gang fighter retaliatory. He used his overtakes and such to kill quite a few dudes and feated. He had too much fury on the field, I needed to select targets around that. Some slaughterhousers charged and efaarit aimed but I didn't roll any 8s on neraphs. Helga landed a boosted Muzzle on a neraph without any fury, backed off and put lucky shot on the gun boar. The gun boar aimed and shot down the preyed Nyss sorceress, the brigands cycled to the seraph (he was a proxy base most turns). Pendrake gave them beast lore and they shot the seraph to 3hp. Some weren't in range and did decent damage to an angelius. The road hog killed the other Nyss sorceress with gang fighter and sprinted in front of Helga along with a few other models. Both angelius' frenzied. The neraphs killed a few slaughterhousers and the road hog and cleared the zone for Fyanna to dominate. Support did support things. The angelius in front of Helga's posse is in an annoying spot. Helga cyclones up, misses it and a neraph then decides against it and walks to the flag. The battle boar, splatter boar and two slaughterhousers also flail against the angelius. Brigands get beast lore, shoot down the seraph, switch to the angelius in melee, kill it where everyone failed and switch to the other angelius. 2 slaughterhousers finish that angel, one runs to engage the bloodseer which my splatter boar charges and does a bit of damage. Time is getting low. We know this game isn't ending on scenario. One neraph frenzies. Fyanna charges up, clears a chump, puts fury and blessed onto the functioning neraph who doesn't come close to killing Helga. He clocks out at this point but it wouldn't matter, Fyanna is in engage range of an efaarit and charge range of Helga.
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Post by custardboy on Jul 20, 2017 22:15:05 GMT
Game 6 was extraction vs Caine3 Heavy Metal or Haley2 in Storm Division. I didn't like Helga into Haley2 and rolled with Arkadius into Caine3. I got first turn and ran forward, Brine pushed forward with Diversionary Tactic and Forced Evolution. He got behind an obstruction. My opponent knew my threat and stayed just out of it. This is one of the points you realise just how dumb Arkadius is, he barely left his deployment zone! Ace took a shot at a hog and put a trick shot onto Arkadius. I moved both road hogs up into position and sprayed Ace, doing a lot of damage. I moved a hog to each flag to force him to either feat or contest- he didn't have chaff models. Arkadius hurled a Primal Shock at Ace, killing him after the road hog damage. My opponent decided to feat. Caine feated and shot one of my war hogs with witch mark then hit it with Calamity and hugged his objective, the hurricane moving to block him entirely after. His other shot did a bit of damage as did one of his crew, the other wasn't in range. The rest of his army then unloaded. I used hyper aggressive to force him to kill beasts once he started on them, unfortunately that was all too easy. I lost 3 war hogs and a road hog that turn, the other road hog took about 10 points and moved up slightly with hyper aggressive. I couldn't come back from that, I had to assassinate. My goraxes hit Brine and the surviving road hog with Primal then walked to relevant positions, one to charge Runewood who was contesting a flag and the other so that when he frenzied he'd fail-charge a model that would land him on a flag. My gobber chef ran to the flag contested by Runewood. Rorsh used Diversionary Tactic to get Brine around the obstruction and then Brine easily killed the objective. Arkadius activated, moved up as far as he could, hit the road hog with Forced Evolution and feated. The road hog charged into one of Caine's unit in the cloud. He didn't reach but got into the cloud. The goraxes killed Runewood and got to the flag respectively. Arkadius then maltreated a gorax and boosted two primal shocks at Caine, the first missing and the second rolling a 3 on damage, doing 1 point. The road hog got in, boosted its tusks, got the crit KD and that was game.
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