|
Post by zerosequence on May 28, 2017 13:16:16 GMT
This is a good discussion, but I think we are approaching this the wrong way. Think about what PP is doing with Trenchers and we have a clue. Here is what I think will happen:
Khador will be broken down into 3-4 mini factions. This may only entail 4ish mini-faction themes. There will be other themes but they will be focused on other things, like Jaws is a jack theme with some elements of advanced scouts, or maybe crossover units/casters, like OW3 could maybe take some Grymkin in a theme, or certain caster pulling in Merc elements, maybe a "black ops" theme with elite units. Stuff like that.
But the main focus right now is the mini-factions to lower the price of entry to the game. For Khador I think we will get:
1. Greylords + Doom Reavers 2. Man o Wars 3. Iron Fangs - Here we roll in some other units. For example I can easily see AK's becoming "Iron Fang Assault Kommandos", just as Long Gunners are becoming Trenchers. Throw in a new CA for them, some Iron Fang weapon attachments, maybe a new IF unit that shoots (the long rumored Axers) and you've goy yourself a theme. And we don't even need a new theme, just rename some units, add a few releases, and the existing Iron Fang theme becomes that much more legit. 4. Winter Guard - Same thing here. Imagine Widowmakers become "Iron Fang Widowmakers." Nothing needs to change for the theme because you can already take them, but they now count toward the Advance Move benefit. Now release another WG unit that could be more like Widowmakers or maybe even a cheap melee unit like Steelheads Halberds (Winter Guard Trench Busters come to mind, armed with grenades and spiked clubs). We've got another complete theme.
My guess is this is the diretion each faction will take. Some will roll into this easier than others. For example, look through the Legion deck - there is already easy division with Blighted, Strider and Grotesque. Good times for Khador, if I am correct.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 28, 2017 13:57:09 GMT
This is a good discussion, but I think we are approaching this the wrong way. Think about what PP is doing with Trenchers and we have a clue. Here is what I think will happen: I think your mostly wrong. The AKs and the Iron Fangs are two pretty radically different models in theme and in execution. Its like "Bane Knight Mechanithralls". Two pretty radically different origins and roles. The Trencher long gunners are a whole NEW unit. We already have a Winter Gaurd Theme and they already Have Widowmakers in them. WG isn't a beneficial rank. Technically every Widowmaker was a Winter Guard Before. Im not sure why you think so many units will be just lumped together when they are capable of being themes on their own.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on May 28, 2017 14:26:28 GMT
I'm just hoping we see Man o War Widowmakers.
Hear me out.
Man o Wars with long range AP cannons. Like Cygnaran Hunters.
Yeah!
|
|
|
Post by tapecrawler on May 28, 2017 14:34:02 GMT
One of the points that zerosequence made is my biggest concern. I said something earlier about the new theme lists and how they are different and zerosequence presented a good example. The old theme lists were strong in some areas but weak in one (or more) areas. The new themes if they follow after the spoiled examples of the trencher theme will have their weaknesses covered by new crossover units. I don't like this, it means that themes are going to end up like mercenaries and minions where there are lot of variety in your faction but because of the structure you are only allowed to take a small fraction of that (i.e. Dwarves, gators,and pigs). Which means in the long run you'll end up having to buy a lot of duplicate models in different theme to play competitively.
|
|
|
Post by zerosequence on May 28, 2017 14:39:16 GMT
This is a good discussion, but I think we are approaching this the wrong way. Think about what PP is doing with Trenchers and we have a clue. Here is what I think will happen: I think your mostly wrong. The AKs and the Iron Fangs are two pretty radically different models in theme and in execution. Its like "Bane Knight Mechanithralls". Two pretty radically different origins and roles. The Trencher long gunners are a whole NEW unit. We already have a Winter Gaurd Theme and they already Have Widowmakers in them. WG isn't a beneficial rank. Technically every Widowmaker was a Winter Guard Before. Im not sure why you think so many units will be just lumped together when they are capable of being themes on their own. I am thinking purely in terms of the physical cost of entry. You have to buy and paint X number of models. The more sub factions there are to the main one the harder it gets for a new player to choose one and eventually collect the whole faction. Really gamers have short attention spans and love to buy the latest hotness. Warmachine has always been a little different because of the way list construction works, but now with these themes in MK3 being the intended outcomes PP is trying to capitalize on getting people to spend $300-400 to but into a new "mini-faction" each year rather than collect a few models to expand the faction you own. This makes it easier to faction swap for veteran players and makes it easier to buy into the game for newer players as there are more clearly defined lines. Your example of Mechanithralls is perfect to prove my point - in CID didn't they all just fall into the "Thrall" theme?
|
|
|
Post by tapecrawler on May 28, 2017 14:41:51 GMT
The widowmaker MOW will have an AOE3 inaccurate RAT4 Weapon with a 10" range. 😞
Speaking of bombardiers, I didn't realize they don't have the inaccurate rule and they're RAT5. That makes them one of our most accurate source of AOEs. Maybe if their range was pushed out to the standard 14", they would actually get fielded.
|
|
|
Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 28, 2017 14:44:23 GMT
Your example of Mechanithralls is perfect to prove my point - in CID didn't they all just fall into the "Thrall" theme? Nope. Its not in the Bane theme at all. They are in the infernal machine theme. They just said that so they could somehow justify CIDing more stuff for Cryx at a time whilst following the guidelines they said in the beginning.
|
|
|
Post by welshhoppo on May 28, 2017 14:47:25 GMT
The widowmaker MOW will have an AOE3 inaccurate RAT4 Weapon with a 10" range. 😞 Speaking of bombardiers, I didn't realize they don't have the inaccurate rule and they're RAT5. That makes them one of our most accurate source of AOEs. Maybe if their range was pushed out to the standard 14", they would actually get fielded. Heck, if they had a UA with mini feat snipe they'd be pretty good too. 2 man CRAs for RAT7 boom booms.
|
|
|
Post by HereComesTomorrow on May 28, 2017 17:16:11 GMT
I'm just hoping we see Man o War Widowmakers. Hear me out. Man o Wars with long range AP cannons. Like Cygnaran Hunters. Yeah! I can dig it. Though i can't shake the image of steampunk Space Marines with autocannons out my head.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on May 29, 2017 4:39:12 GMT
For example I can easily see AK's becoming "Iron Fang Assault Kommandos" Hmm, I'm under the vague impression that AKs are recruited from the ranks of the Winter Guard? I can't see them becoming Iron Fangs as that's a completely different branch isn't it? I guess I'm probably nitpicking a bit here; your point would still hold if they became "Winter Guard Assault Kommandos". In a way that makes sense because it would give you a tough Shield Guard unit in the Winter Guard theme for holding objectives etc, and if they were benefit from Joe's strength-buffing speech then they would actually be a pretty good melee unit.
|
|