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Post by Swampmist on Jul 9, 2017 22:37:41 GMT
Again, the issue is that Horgle2 and Kallus2 have tricks beyond fire, though that might change depending on how the Northkin CID changes Horble2's list building. Horgle still has an arm buff in trolls, as well as blast immunity (aka all our skyhammers are also bad here) independent of his fire stuff. Kallus2 has some seriously strong spells outside of his fire weakness, and while not getting shot by seraphs and angelii is cool, it's not like it hurts his melee game in any way.
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Post by paradox on Jul 9, 2017 23:12:43 GMT
Again, the issue is that Horgle2 and Kallus2 have tricks beyond fire, though that might change depending on how the Northkin CID changes Horble2's list building. Horgle still has an arm buff in trolls, as well as blast immunity (aka all our skyhammers are also bad here) independent of his fire stuff. Kallus2 has some seriously strong spells outside of his fire weakness, and while not getting shot by seraphs and angelii is cool, it's not like it hurts his melee game in any way. Like Feora1 has Hex Hammer and EoD? Or Feora2 has Escort and a huge, nonlinear personal assassination threar? Or Feora3 has Redline and Incite? Or Malekus has Scourge and Open Fire? Guardians allows you to Ambush daughters and remove the stone? Couple with Flame Bringers? Is my Feora1 list starting to sound familiar?
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Post by Swampmist on Jul 9, 2017 23:28:35 GMT
I don't consider feora1 a fire-focused caster. She spreads it well, but it's not like she does anything but spread it.
Feora2's threat lacks pathfinder, and is incredibly weak when she doesn't have any focus from feat because the enemy army can't be set on fire. You technically can set your own stuff on fire, but sr2017 is removing the ability to take an objective to do it so I'm not sure what she has that can set her stuff on fire without killing it.
Feora3 has literally one thing that makes fire (flametrail from feat) and a spray. She isn't a fire caster any more than sevvy1 is.
Malekus has scourge, sure. But if your taking non-fire guns to leverage it, he's not using the rest of his kit (beyond maybe a unit of thorn gun mages.) Open Fire, in my experience, just isn't worth it, especially if you don't have fire guns for it.
Why is guardians relevent to this discussion? Cleansers? The rest of the flameguard theme does nothing with fire, and so I'm not seeing your point about it.
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Post by paradox on Jul 10, 2017 1:12:29 GMT
I don't consider feora1 a fire-focused caster. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!11
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Post by paradox on Jul 10, 2017 1:13:06 GMT
Youve completely missed the point.
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Post by streetpizza on Jul 10, 2017 1:35:15 GMT
Again, the issue is that Horgle2 and Kallus2 have tricks beyond fire, though that might change depending on how the Northkin CID changes Horble2's list building. Horgle still has an arm buff in trolls, as well as blast immunity (aka all our skyhammers are also bad here) independent of his fire stuff. Kallus2 has some seriously strong spells outside of his fire weakness, and while not getting shot by seraphs and angelii is cool, it's not like it hurts his melee game in any way. Okay so then here's a good tip for the issues you've mentioned. Don't build your second list as a ranged focus list. Horgle is hosed by the High Reclaimer, Thyra (Guardians), Vinny (interdiction), or Amon (creator's might). Of those lists only the High Reclaimer is also weak into Kahlus. That's also spread across all four of our list building theme options so we're seriously spoiled for choice here. I mean you can always complain that a single list will have weak matchups. The fact is that the presence of those two casters in no way diminishes the Protectorate's fire theme it just means that you need to account for them if you want to play fire themed lists. All of that being said though I think you're selling our fire lists short when played into those matchups. Other people have already listed the non fire based abilities that make our four ... FOUR! ... fire themed casters tick.
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