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Post by macdaddy on May 25, 2017 12:25:58 GMT
He just.....sold vengers at me. Really hard. Is he trolling us again? Who, when met with an errant boat screening 2 units of Kreoss 3's vengers, VOLUNTARILY GIVES THEM PATHFINDER instead of just taking out the errants and giving Kreoss the finger? Especially after putting them in a forest which effectively makes them lose half thier movement. Woohooo Tactics!
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 25, 2017 12:29:28 GMT
He just.....sold vengers at me. Really hard. Is he trolling us again? Who, when met with an errant boat screening 2 units of Kreoss 3's vengers, VOLUNTARILY GIVES THEM PATHFINDER instead of just taking out the errants and giving Kreoss the finger? Especially after putting them in a forest which effectively makes them lose half thier movement. Woohooo Tactics! I'm starkly reminded of a white dwarf where I got curious about the amount of plasma the marines were bringing in a couple games. I did the points, triple checked the tactics, then openly ran the game with assumed dice rolls based on observed results. The results were that GW was very clearly not playing the same game they were selling. I'm getting a similar vibe here.
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Post by macdaddy on May 25, 2017 12:34:38 GMT
Especially after putting them in a forest which effectively makes them lose half thier movement. Woohooo Tactics! I'm starkly reminded of a white dwarf where I got curious about the amount of plasma the marines were bringing in a couple games. I did the points, triple checked the tactics, then openly ran the game with assumed dice rolls based on observed results. The results were that GW was very clearly not playing the same game they were selling. I'm getting a similar vibe here.
PPS_boss hey I'm putting this model out here with the errant screen. PPS_underling playtester. Ok (proceeds to kill all the errabts and leave the Vengers in the trees wondering what to do) PPS_Boss..... wait..no that's not how this works go back and kill that sacrificial model so we can trigger battle driven gosh why do I even pay you.
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Post by streetpizza on May 25, 2017 13:12:21 GMT
He just.....sold vengers at me. Really hard. Is he trolling us again? Who, when met with an errant boat screening 2 units of Kreoss 3's vengers, VOLUNTARILY GIVES THEM PATHFINDER instead of just taking out the errants and giving Kreoss the finger? The big kicker being that those errants don't even have access to tough anymore because Ruhpert isn't available in theme. Would've been really nice with Gravus to.
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Post by dicebedamned on May 25, 2017 13:29:15 GMT
Confirmation once again that Soles does not actually have a clue about how this game is played. No wonder PoM has some issues when Soles is the internal player for the faction.
If Soles' job roles relies on him knowing how the game plays and making decisions based on that, someone needs to sack him!
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Post by Scrub_of_Menoth on May 25, 2017 13:32:25 GMT
If Soles' job roles relies on him knowing how the game plays and making decisions based on that, someone needs to sack him! Hah, good luck with that given that he's the lead designer. -_-
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Post by dicebedamned on May 25, 2017 13:39:20 GMT
If Soles' job roles relies on him knowing how the game plays and making decisions based on that, someone needs to sack him! Hah, good luck with that given that he's the lead designer. -_- *FacePalm*
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 25, 2017 13:41:21 GMT
Did you not know?
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Post by flamigant on May 25, 2017 13:41:26 GMT
Lol what a joke, i love that everything my army has to die before it can actually do something. We have vengeance amongst our units? I guess he means a unit... Only worth mentioning we have 2 inch deployment? Who the hell takes a couple of devouts? Does anyone at PP actually play PoM?
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Post by Cryptix on May 25, 2017 13:46:53 GMT
Replace the jacks with Blessed Weapons with Exemplars get tough. I just fixed this theme, we can all go home now.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 25, 2017 13:54:24 GMT
Lol what a joke, i love that everything my army has to die before it can actually do something. We have vengeance amongst our units? I guess he means a unit... Only worth mentioning we have 2 inch deployment? Who the hell takes a couple of devouts? Does anyone at PP actually play PoM? FWIW, multiple devouts is a legitimate, if questionably efficient, strategy with reznik 2, harbinger, certain Amon builds, durst, any guardians of the temple list, and severius 2.
@ cryptix:
No. Just handing out tough is a really bad option because it's uninventive and boring. It'd make us "banes, but alive." We need something actually, truly unique. Theme benefit, battle driven stacks on itself would be super cool. Bastions getting a unit wide hyper aggressive rule. Cinerators getting countercharge. Something different that what we already can get.
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Post by macdaddy on May 25, 2017 14:11:30 GMT
Giving Exemplars hyper aggressive (worded for unit that allows a model to advance if another model dies or is damaged.) would be flipping awesome.
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Post by streetpizza on May 25, 2017 14:57:10 GMT
Lol what a joke, i love that everything my army has to die before it can actually do something. We have vengeance amongst our units? I guess he means a unit... Only worth mentioning we have 2 inch deployment? Who the hell takes a couple of devouts? Does anyone at PP actually play PoM? FWIW, multiple devouts is a legitimate, if questionably efficient, strategy with reznik 2, harbinger, certain Amon builds, durst, any guardians of the temple list, and severius 2.
@ cryptix:
No. Just handing out tough is a really bad option because it's uninventive and boring. It'd make us "banes, but alive." We need something actually, truly unique. Theme benefit, battle driven stacks on itself would be super cool. Bastions getting a unit wide hyper aggressive rule. Cinerators getting countercharge. Something different that what we already can get.
Except that we can't get it in theme and not army wide. I personally love the idea of exemplar wide tough but I do think that its over the top for power level. That plus Gravus and suddenly we'd be better at troll's shtick than trolls are themselves. I would modify the idea to be "Choose one (or two) units in the army to have tough for the game which must be declared before deployment" and bang ... now its ready for testing.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 25, 2017 15:41:10 GMT
FWIW, multiple devouts is a legitimate, if questionably efficient, strategy with reznik 2, harbinger, certain Amon builds, durst, any guardians of the temple list, and severius 2.
@ cryptix:
No. Just handing out tough is a really bad option because it's uninventive and boring. It'd make us "banes, but alive." We need something actually, truly unique. Theme benefit, battle driven stacks on itself would be super cool. Bastions getting a unit wide hyper aggressive rule. Cinerators getting countercharge. Something different that what we already can get.
Except that we can't get it in theme and not army wide. I personally love the idea of exemplar wide tough but I do think that its over the top for power level. That plus Gravus and suddenly we'd be better at troll's shtick than trolls are themselves. I would modify the idea to be "Choose one (or two) units in the army to have tough for the game which must be declared before deployment" and bang ... now its ready for testing. Except that it's exactly the wrong way of doing it. We've been infuriated, time and again, by other people beating us at our own games in MK 3: harbinger feat vs old witch, feaora's fire vs horgle's and Durgen's, dissolution and purification, and so on. We want PP to break that cycle entirely, not do it to someone else (especially not trolls, they need help too as is outside a few builds).
Furthermore, "just give tough, I'm done thinking" is a continuation of the problem we already have: it's solid numerically, but lacks interaction, creativity, can be fairly easily circumvented, and is not actually all that thematic. The Exemplars generate a VERY strong theme of "Vengeance against those who dare strike us." Tough does not accentuate this at all.
Look at the bane theme: terrifying ghostly warriors emerging from the shadows, previously unseen. Winterguard: legions of disposable bodies, backed by massive guns (inexplicably aggressive carriages notwithstanding). Storm Divison: we generate lightning and came prepared for that fact.
Exemplar theme should communicate their theme. Right now, it simply does not, and tough wouldn't change that.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 25, 2017 15:45:05 GMT
Except that it's exactly the wrong way of doing it. We've been infuriated, time and again, by other people beating us at our own games in MK 3: harbinger feat vs old witch, Huh. I never knew you saw it that way especially as Old Witches Feat is seen as lackluster in Khador. Kinda really limits her capabilities in the new edition when Warnouns just ignore it no problem.
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