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Post by Aegis on May 24, 2017 7:23:39 GMT
So, Primecast is out, and we have some infos on the releases we are going to see in CID soon:
- A Trencher char solo that gives around Feign Death. - A Trencher Dog weapon attachment that at the moment gives to the unit (whatever trencher) who is attached Dodge or maybe Acrobatics (still under test), and barks to remove Stealth near it. - Trencher Long Gunners. Better at shooting, with Tough, and with a better command attachment it seems. - Trencher Trollkin Snipers with huge sniping rifles and range finder buddies. - Trencher Mechanicks that are Tough and seem to be able to actually fight other than repairing. - A Trencher Bunker that is the first Structure model in the game, that is basically an Huge based immobile model that can shoot and spawn Trenchers.
Theme force seems to give free Trenchers for bringing Trenchers and to give Rise to everyone to stand up after Tough (That goes in combo with Feign Death for trenchers that tough, become un-shootable and then rise for free).
Finally Siege2, is a Colonnel now and seems to be able to deploy (and pick up and redeploy) a shooting turret.
What do you think about this?
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Post by Aegis on May 24, 2017 7:38:23 GMT
Right now everything seems pretty interesting.
I can't figure out how they think Trencher Long Gunners can not totally and utterly overshadow even the very very very limited niche normal Long Gunners are actually filling.
They are basically Long Gunners with extra things added on the top of it (they are even better at shooting seems), so I can't figure out how these new Long Gunners will not be going to basically make old Long Gunners totally obsolete (more than they already were). My fear is that they will plan on balancing those extra abilities rising their cost, but since Long Gunners are already overpriced to begin with, that would make Trencher Long Gunners cost really too much.
Another thing I'm quite sceptic is the Trollkin Snipers. Right now artillery/Snipe groups models around factions don't seem to perform particulary good, basically due to being usually quite costly (usually 4-5 points) for a single not boostable shot per turn.
That said, everything else look pretty cool, and the miniatures will probably be great to paint, so I'm pretty anxious to see how it will go. It will be also the first faction-specific CID cycle involving a faction not generically considered bad, so I'm curious about how the CID community will behave (will their judgements be biased by the played faction, es. Cygnar players crying for buffs and everyone else crying for nerfs, or the opinions will be more objectives on both sides? We will see soon I presume).
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 24, 2017 7:46:35 GMT
So the dog will run up to stand next to stuff to take away it's stealth?
As a primarily Strakhov player (well, back when I could actually get games), this actually gives me a good reason to bring my own dog. Just think about it: the Cygnar dog runs up to Strakhov to undo his Stealth, but the Khador dog counter-charges to try to kill the Cygnar dog to protect his master. That would actually be a pretty cool little mini-battle.
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Post by Aegis on May 24, 2017 7:56:14 GMT
They didn't gave up details a part from it marking targets with barks, but actually I think it will work pretty similar to how Argus Moonhounds work (so likely a 5" radius imo).
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 24, 2017 8:43:29 GMT
Does the Trencher Dog have animosity Gibb's?
All sounds super awesome, I love the aesthetic and feel of Trenchers, cannot wait for the theme, Trollkin Trencher snipers sound pretty cool as well
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 24, 2017 9:06:11 GMT
Right now everything seems pretty interesting. I can't figure out how they think Trencher Long Gunners can not totally and utterly overshadow even the very very very limited niche normal Long Gunners are actually filling. They are basically Long Gunners with extra things added on the top of it (they are even better at shooting seems), so I can't figure out how these new Long Gunners will not be going to basically make old Long Gunners totally obsolete (more than they already were). My fear is that they will plan on balancing those extra abilities rising their cost, but since Long Gunners are already overpriced to begin with, that would make Trencher Long Gunners cost really too much. The old and new longgunners will be in different themes so will not be competing directly, PP wants everything to be played in theme as that is how they are going to internally balance factions and deal with faction bloat.
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Post by Aegis on May 24, 2017 10:58:19 GMT
Right now everything seems pretty interesting. I can't figure out how they think Trencher Long Gunners can not totally and utterly overshadow even the very very very limited niche normal Long Gunners are actually filling. They are basically Long Gunners with extra things added on the top of it (they are even better at shooting seems), so I can't figure out how these new Long Gunners will not be going to basically make old Long Gunners totally obsolete (more than they already were). My fear is that they will plan on balancing those extra abilities rising their cost, but since Long Gunners are already overpriced to begin with, that would make Trencher Long Gunners cost really too much. The old and new longgunners will be in different themes so will not be competing directly, PP wants everything to be played in theme as that is how they are going to internally balance factions and deal with faction bloat. Sure, but you can't realistically make a piece/unit and cost it X points, and then make another similar unit that does the same things plus many more and make it cost X too. It would make either the first one overcosted or the second undercosted. That is what makes me worry that either Trencher Long Gunners will be badly overpriced or that they will lose something important in respect of normal Long Gunners (They haven't said anything about Dual Shot, as an example). Anyway, that is just a worry. We will see when the full stats will be disclosed.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 24, 2017 12:14:14 GMT
Sure, but you can't realistically make a piece/unit and cost it X points, and then make another similar unit that does the same things plus many more and make it cost X too. It would make either the first one overcosted or the second undercosted. Black Fangs and Iron Fangs Exist in Khador pretty fine without obsoleting the other despite one being a binary upgrade of the other. Nobody said they will cost the same amount of points, and their UAs will hopefully give them enough of different roles.
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Post by Aegis on May 24, 2017 12:23:41 GMT
Sure, but you can't realistically make a piece/unit and cost it X points, and then make another similar unit that does the same things plus many more and make it cost X too. It would make either the first one overcosted or the second undercosted. Black Fangs and Iron Fangs Exist in Khador pretty fine without obsoleting the other despite one being a binary upgrade of the other. Nobody said they will cost the same amount of points, and their UAs will hopefully give them enough of different roles. Sure, but that is starting from an unit that is priced about right, making an upgrade for more points a viable option (and also Iron Fangs have some advantage toward Black Fangs, while from the interview seems that Trencher Long Gunners have basically everything LG + something trencher). That makes me suspect that they will either rise the base cost of an already badly overpriced unit (Making it too costly to be worth), or remove something from Long Gunners, that would probably be Dual Shot since it's basically the only rule LG have and CRA is already confirmed as present in the TLG unit. That said, no point speculating over a certain degree. We will see when full stats are out.
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 24, 2017 12:55:41 GMT
Sure, but that is starting from an unit that is priced about right I remind thee that Trenchers and all other Trench Related things will be put through Cid right alongside the regular ol' trenchy boys.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on May 24, 2017 13:19:48 GMT
Right now everything seems pretty interesting. I can't figure out how they think Trencher Long Gunners can not totally and utterly overshadow even the very very very limited niche normal Long Gunners are actually filling. They are basically Long Gunners with extra things added on the top of it (they are even better at shooting seems), so I can't figure out how these new Long Gunners will not be going to basically make old Long Gunners totally obsolete (more than they already were). My fear is that they will plan on balancing those extra abilities rising their cost, but since Long Gunners are already overpriced to begin with, that would make Trencher Long Gunners cost really too much. The old and new longgunners will be in different themes so will not be competing directly, PP wants everything to be played in theme as that is how they are going to internally balance factions and deal with faction bloat. I think old long gunners will join models like deliverers and kossites by never getting into a theme, and being phased out while still "having rules so your purchase isn't invalidated".
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on May 24, 2017 13:55:09 GMT
Aren't kosites in the jaws of the wolf theme?
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Post by Rowdy Dragon on May 24, 2017 14:16:37 GMT
I think old long gunners will join models like deliverers and kossites by never getting into a theme, and being phased out while still "having rules so your purchase isn't invalidated".
Whilst possible, I think they will just be stapled into other theme lists, not Trencher Centric. As been mentioned Kossites already ARE part of a theme. Like one representing "The Old Valiant ways" with Sword Knights and Longunners. But if not that would be a awful anti-consumerist move by PP
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Post by jisidro on May 24, 2017 14:42:33 GMT
They didn't gave up details a part from it marking targets with barks, but actually I think it will work pretty similar to how Argus Moonhounds work (so likely a 5" radius imo).
It's an animus on Moonhound whihc means he cannot run. Perhaps not a radius but a single model? Hunting Dog style, paw raised and pointing?
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on May 24, 2017 19:21:53 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much about the different families of Long Gunners. Khador has two very good examples of units being basically but with different Costs and Roles: Winter Guard Infantry vs Rifle Corp, and IFP vs BDs. Both of these example perform similar roles but they do it at different point costs with different tools, and players debate constantly about which one to take, which is all a good sign I believe. Also, once the Trenchers come out I have an excuse to dust off the Cygnar models my brother gave me And finally, the Structure sounds AWESOME! having legitimate interactive terrain is such a big boon for the hobby side of the game (even though it's technically not terrain ) Whilst possible, I think they will just be stapled into other theme lists, not Trencher Centric. As been mentioned Kossites already ARE part of a theme. Like one representing "The Old Valiant ways" with Sword Knights and Longunners. But if not that would be a awful anti-consumerist move by PP Wouldn't be surprised, but I'm actually of the Unpopular Opinion that PP should cut their SKU count and just sunset models that don't see regular play or that players don't give a crap about. Having a lower SKU count will help out their supply chain/retailers and make the game more palatable to newer players (7 years in, and I still don't own Kossites, but I have around 30 Iron Fangs, nearly 50 winter guard, and I'm almost at full FA on MoW waiting for their theme list to release ))
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