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Post by jisidro on May 19, 2017 16:23:44 GMT
Much to my dismay seems a lot of people use Baldur2 against Cygnar, specifically Haley2.
My POV:
- Thorn (The thing that should not be): He will get LOS on you, he will put his spells where he needs them. Druids talk about the good old days and they are right. - She will get the alpha, Baldur gives it away. That and her feat means she will get it twice and still keep most stuff as safe as she wants it. - My super WWrath is ARM23, haha! My "squishy" Stormwall is ARM22, has more boxes, hits as hard and is immune to your shooting WWrath. What are you laughing about WWrath? - 12" Control area is a pain. Hordes main disadvantage is exacerbated in Baldur2 who must activate last on his feat turn and by Haley's abilities.
Here is a demo: pulpdogg.com/ Check out the report on Nordish Masters. It's the description on someone who never felt threatened by the match-up. If Baldur2 = RotE then kill something else.
Plz give me your secret knowledge.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 19, 2017 16:38:53 GMT
Much to my dismay seems a lot of people use Baldur2 against Cygnar, specifically Haley2.
My POV:
- Thorn (The thing that should not be): He will get LOS on you, he will put his spells where he needs them. Druids talk about the good old days and they are right. - She will get the alpha, Baldur gives it away. That and her feat means she will get it twice and still keep most stuff as safe as she wants it. - My super WWrath is ARM23, haha! My "squishy" Stormwall is ARM22, has more boxes, hits as hard and is immune to your shooting WWrath. What are you laughing about WWrath? - 12" Control area is a pain. Hordes main disadvantage is exacerbated in Baldur2 who must activate last on his feat turn and by Haley's abilities.
Here is a demo: pulpdogg.com/ Check out the report on Nordish Masters. It's the description on someone who never felt threatened by the match-up. If Baldur2 = RotE then kill something else.
Plz give me your secret knowledge. I'm not quite sure what kind of response you're looking for to your rambling post. I can point out, however, that Stormwall does NOT have more boxes than a Woldwrath. In fact, it's the opposite. Woldwrath has 58, Stormwall has 56.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 19, 2017 16:49:56 GMT
Much to my dismay seems a lot of people use Baldur2 against Cygnar, specifically Haley2.
My POV:
- Thorn (The thing that should not be): He will get LOS on you, he will put his spells where he needs them. Druids talk about the good old days and they are right. - She will get the alpha, Baldur gives it away. That and her feat means she will get it twice and still keep most stuff as safe as she wants it. - My super WWrath is ARM23, haha! My "squishy" Stormwall is ARM22, has more boxes, hits as hard and is immune to your shooting WWrath. What are you laughing about WWrath? - 12" Control area is a pain. Hordes main disadvantage is exacerbated in Baldur2 who must activate last on his feat turn and by Haley's abilities.
Here is a demo: pulpdogg.com/ Check out the report on Nordish Masters. It's the description on someone who never felt threatened by the match-up. If Baldur2 = RotE then kill something else.
Plz give me your secret knowledge. I'm not quite sure what kind of response you're looking for to your rambling post. I can point out, however, that Stormwall does NOT have more boxes than a Woldwrath. In fact, it's the opposite. Woldwrath has 58, Stormwall has 56. Also, I just read the battle reports that you linked. Neither player is very good so I would caution you against drawing any conclusions whatsoever from their match. The Baldur2 list is a bad list, and the player made an error -not a mistake, but an ERROR - that led to his immediate loss. Also, the Haley2 player's games and even matchup thought process were riddled with obvious flaws that are result of inexperience and ignorance concerning his own models. Truly, the battle report is not instructive (except as how NOT to play Baldur2).
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Post by macdaddy on May 19, 2017 17:57:47 GMT
Since you are challenging this Id like to point out some things about the battle reports you shared
1: both baldur players ALLOWED themselves to be assassinated. If you let Haley 2 TK baldur that trivially you deserve to die.
2: Neither baldur list was incredibly optimized or seemed specifically designed to face cygnar. Woldwyrds are cool but unless you are staring down lances its better to run other heavies or a wrath.
3: Neither example compels your point as both ended in a fully preventable assassination. Tk is terrible but Bladur 2 can say no to it prettyeasily.
Examples; Ill go back and check my notes but basically heres what you do in a Haley 2 v Baldur 2 fight.
You bait out a turn 2 feat by threatening her lines or forcing her to alpha early. You then Either absorb the second alpha or the post feat alpha (cygnar jacks have issues killing things under roots) Rock wall and using shifting stones and manikins to jam and reduce his alphas effectiveness is also pivotal. You use your beasts to gang up on his jacks or Obligatory Stormwall Kill it and use your feat to push all your beast to full in retaliation and still have roots plus a rock wall on everything. Your opponent complains because his big jack is dead (or enough of his regular jacks are dead) and haleys toolbox is now useless. Grind hard fought rest of the game and play smart to avoid assassination from the ever predictable thorn arcnode. Or better yet just focus down thorn in the first place...
Here are some battle reports that I am pulling from memory do not have full notes on them. First game of Baldur 2 vs haley 2 with my wold list MK 3 she has double lances and stormwall I bait out a turn 2 feat and absorb lance alpha. I retaliate by standing still and casting roots using wardens and megs and baldur, camping 2 and using stones and shapers to heal my wolds. Baldur tucks up right behind the fully immobile and healed up wold line with no way for thorn to get to him or Haley to draw LOS without killing 2 Arm 23 guardians at full health and a full health ARM 22 Megs. Wardens popped forest to block LOS on flanks. His stormwall goes in kills a guardian. Lances do damage but nothing major and I retaliate by killing the stormwall with Megs, Guardian, Warden and baldur finishes it off. other warden kills some lances. I then feat. Grind continues but he cant kill my constantly healing heavies and I protect baldur with forests, stones and heavies and transfers and I win on attrition and scenario. It is notable I kept My sentry stones on the flanks and manikins did kill a few lances but his lances killed the sentry stones over time.
Next Game. Haley 2 heavy metal double stormwall. Bait turn 2 feat thanks to bones extra deployment and using tramples to get up the board but stay out of his threat and still have roots. Stormwalls both have arcane shield and shoot my wolds but don't kill anything he has to feat or get charged as he needed to play up for scenario (the 3 flag one) I dominate the center of the board and by turn 3 have 2 points manikins are guarding flanks. I feed his stormwalls heavies keeping them away from the center flag and win on scenario. Tier list allowed me to take control of the center of the board and manikins did an excellent job threatening the flanks and being a scoring threat.
Next game Haley 2 with all the lances again...pretty much exact same as the first but I don't manage to kill the stormwall and win on scenario in the pit by feeding heavies and using my balckclad wayfaerers and manikins to contest his flag to prevent scoring.
Next game Baldur 2 in Haley 2 with a bunch of the Sword and buckler jacks. Its a straight forward bait turn 2 feat absorb double alpha grind where I use clever shifting stone and wall positioning to negate him more than one jack at a heavy at a time and he cant finish anything off. I swing attrition using my wolds to gang up on his jacks after not rolling dice till turn 3 and proceed to win a long hard fought grind. Dice swung in my favor around turn 4 but he had really hot dice early game.
There is more but those are the ones I remember best. Feel free to ask me questions.
Every game goes pretty much the same. You make her feat first and you absorb the alpha. It works great and its won me a lot of games into cygnar and ret.
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Post by jisidro on May 22, 2017 10:33:06 GMT
What I was trying to say, and failed, is that if you RoTE Baldur then you are in the game and I believe, H2, can just do somehting else. He can kill your support to reduce healing and fury management he can shoot and just plink you down a bit. You threaten 11" ATM which is below anything Haley has.
I played a lot of Baldur2 and my experience is that versatile opponents who don't let themselves get bogged down will take you piece by piece unless the clock or CPs start to preassure him. Macdaddy can provoque a 1st Feat from Haley2, well... I haven't managed to.
My questions:
- What provoqued the charge by the stormlances? He had to know they wouldn't do much... - Why are they feating T2? Can't they shoot and feed you something to make you (over)extend and start to have fury issues?
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Post by macdaddy on May 22, 2017 11:26:19 GMT
What I was trying to say, and failed, is that if you RoTE Baldur then you are in the game and I believe, H2, can just do somehting else. He can kill your support to reduce healing and fury management he can shoot and just plink you down a bit. You threaten 11" ATM which is below anything Haley has. I played a lot of Baldur2 and my experience is that versatile opponents who don't let themselves get bogged down will take you piece by piece unless the clock or CPs start to preassure him. Macdaddy can provoque a 1st Feat from Haley2, well... I haven't managed to. My questions: - What provoqued the charge by the stormlances? He had to know they wouldn't do much... - Why are they feating T2? Can't they shoot and feed you something to make you (over)extend and start to have fury issues? Bones extends my deployment by 2" putting me roughly halfway up the board by turn 2 if I go first or on his side of the table if I go second. Each game I put my wolds on a position so that with hunters mark i could threat his front lines and gun gun up with heaviesto slow him down and start winning on scenario. I like to absorb an alpha early so most of the time I leave myself in range of a few of his targets threat ranges. Either way i normally get them to use thier Feat to double alpha. Lances were meant to Charge at Max reach, Repo back. Charge again after Feat Turn. It was a good plan and does more DMG than shooting and kept him in on scenario. He could stay back and chop but I just heal most chip damage through stones and Stoneshapers and Tier. I position my support models so that the only thing taking e leaps are shifting stones or wolds and the rest hise behind a wall of Wolds so are normally out of LoS. Never have Fury issues in bones and I never over extend unless I'm feeding a Garg a Heavy to buy me Scenario time or eat my opponents clock. I stay turtles most games and just soak damage and heal cycling what can get to where through model positioning. Shifting stones and rock walk are very good at helping me do this. The healing abilities of this list are really good. Shooting and chip damage as said earlier does nothing to this list. It can hurt if my opponent gets lucky but average dice typically means they are Dice -4+ with any gun on my stuff. Wold Guardians shield guard shots that can dent Wardens or cycle around damage. Also If I use Geomancy properly and plan my turn Haley 2 has nothing to do but allocate focus or throw a time bomb. Which most Haley players like to camp until there are less threats on the board and so I never really deal with.
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