isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 11, 2017 14:57:52 GMT
Been considering a 3rd caster for Ret ( currently play Helynna and Ossyan) for some time. Was between Elara, Thyron and both Vyros waiting for new releases before committing. I've put together a list i really think has some punch for Vyros1. Here it is:
Retribution of Scyrah - Vyros1
Dawnlord Vyros - WJ: +28
Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 4
Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
Hemera - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Griffon - PC: 8
Griffon - PC: 8
Priest of Nyssor - PC: 4
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Spears of Scyrah - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander - PC: 6
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 9 Grunts: 19
So the basic theory is fast, mostly pathfinder force with some ranged and a strong alpha strike with enough models for scenario play in SR17 with the ability for Vyros to get in the action.
In more depth i think AD spears with E3 will be an amazing unit for both feat turn and assassination runs. The spears can screen for e3 on the approach, for feat turn they can charge in and repo to engage for feat with 2" reach while E3 can vengeance, charge, quick work shoot their caster from crazy far away or just vengeance into range so she can aim at their caster. Nyss Hunters are now RAT7 and ignoring cover/conceal... that's amazing. If your opponent tries to jam them you can spray through them with the priest since he makes them cold immune. Impy because... you know. Hemera gives him a 2md heavy, the arcnode he always wants( with way more punch and durability than a chimera. 20 boxes to proper column to take out her arc node!!) With birds eye, a nice gun, repo 3 AND -1 cost on stranglehold!!!! Yes please. Griffons of course are your fire and forget missiles. Since Vyros becomes a MAT 10 pow 14 weaponmaster with flank there is gonna be times where you want to get him into the fight. With the guardian he can do this a little more comfortably becoming a 17/17 in melee with a shield guard and 17/19 if you feel there's a big threat ( prefer IR on Imperatus though) and cannot be knocked down with healer.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on May 11, 2017 15:06:49 GMT
Seems like a really well thought out and solid list. Personally my favorite place for the spears is with Vyros1. He really likes using them as flank bots and E3 really ups imperitus's assassination game if she hits. As for the rest of your army the only thing that I am not loving is Hemera. -1COST strangleholds are nice but I don't know if she is worth it. Still really solid and probably our best arc node so should still do alot of work.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 11, 2017 15:24:26 GMT
Seems like a really well thought out and solid list. Personally my favorite place for the spears is with Vyros1. He really likes using them as flank bots and E3 really ups imperitus's assassination game if she hits. As for the rest of your army the only thing that I am not loving is Hemera. -1COST strangleholds are nice but I don't know if she is worth it. Still really solid and probably our best arc node so should still do alot of work. I like Hemera. I think the reason I like her is her ability to contribute all game. For 16 points you could alternatively take a Griffon and a Chimera. That gives you the arc node you want and one more fire and forget missile. Hemera alternatively has a pretty nice gun (and with birds eye can utilize it quite well), is a lot heartier than a chimera, and has one open fist on a heavy, if they engage her with something big you can throw it and repo 3 to get into position to arc. If they jam her with troops you can trample and repo into position to arc. Sure she's pillow fisted in melee, but at the same time the only turn you're really gonna be wanting to engage her into melee she will be a SPD 8, pathfinder, MAT 8 POW 17 weaponmaster before resuming her shoot and arc role. I think that's why with Vyros1 her pillow fisted melee attacks can kind of be ignored.
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Post by nightflier on May 12, 2017 5:24:11 GMT
That gun with repo is money with v1 Birdseye really is a super sweet ability
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 24, 2017 18:40:04 GMT
Just pre-ordered the pieces I needed to make this list happen while DGI was having the sale. My painters gonna get home from his vacation to a surprise
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jun 6, 2017 2:26:47 GMT
I like a lot of what's in this list, but there's room for improvement.
Sylys vs Fane Knight - I think a critical piece of Vyros1's toolbox is Stranglhold. Locking down an enemy piece you're not ready to deal with yet saves you on the attrition race. It's the reason to include an arc node, but you need Sylys to save you the focus to actually do it. I've also gotten clutch use out of Eliminator, largely because of Arcane Secrets. Plus, who would I be if I didn't push hard for a model with Arcane Assist.
Nyss vs Infiltrators - My biggests concern with the Nyss Hunters is how good they are. On the feat turn I often want to run and possibly throw away a lot of my pathfinder flank models. This means getting no work out of a unit with great guns and weaponmaster attacks. I play infiltrators because at 1.3 points a model, I don't mind missing out on them entirely for a turn of armor cracking with light jacks. Cutting them down to infiltrators and removing the Priest saves you 10 points: enough for another Griffin and a third Arcanist.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jun 6, 2017 3:09:35 GMT
I like a lot of what's in this list, but there's room for improvement. Sylys vs Fane Knight - I think a critical piece of Vyros1's toolbox is Stranglhold. Locking down an enemy piece you're not ready to deal with yet saves you on the attrition race. It's the reason to include an arc node, but you need Sylys to save you the focus to actually do it. I've also gotten clutch use out of Eliminator, largely because of Arcane Secrets. Plus, who would I be if I didn't push hard for a model with Arcane Assist. Nyss vs Infiltrators - My biggests concern with the Nyss Hunters is how good they are. On the feat turn I often want to run and possibly throw away a lot of my pathfinder flank models. This means getting no work out of a unit with great guns and weaponmaster attacks. I play infiltrators because at 1.3 points a model, I don't mind missing out on them entirely for a turn of armor cracking with light jacks. Cutting them down to infiltrators and removing the Priest saves you 10 points: enough for another Griffin and a third Arcanist. I am torn between willy and the guardian. I think I'd have to play a few with each and see how they work for me. Im hoping that nyss can be used more as a can opener to enable assassinations for Imperatus. If my opponent screens with infantry I can shoot them and engage their caster with spears, if they screen with jacks I can run/charge them and soften them up for my jacks. With less jacks I probably won't have to run them just for feat bonus as often. If you can deliver Hemera into a jack on feat and either kill it, headbut it or throw it to enable a sidestep target for Impy then walk her into mark target range for E3 to become Rat11. With priest and Nyss you can get some really acurate CRAs off aswel, 4 RAT 9 and 1 RAT 10 pow 12s even without Hemera's +2 and with hunter from 19" away could end games early if you go first and your opponent doesnt respect your threat range and don't camp enough their first turn. I know it's a little more of a snowflake Vyros list, but im hoping the tools it has make it a strong list.
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Post by elladan52 on Jun 6, 2017 3:23:40 GMT
I second the nyss, I really like them with him. If you include some other infantry or solos you can always have them run into position, I find it is rare I need to engage more than a couple of heavy targets anyway.
The nyss give you the option to shoot for a turn or two. With mobility, the opponent is often afraid of the jacks and plays a little more conservatively, and it pays to have guns in those situations.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 7, 2017 21:15:43 GMT
With a lot of talk here and other places about Vyros1 and him being in ADR,the announcement of the harpy and SR17 coming out of CID I'm going to copy paste a more recent write up of this list's concepts. Some information is repetitive, sorry!
While I do not play Vyros1 in theme i belive that he benifits from the removal of killbox from the sides of the table more than any other caster in the game. I also think that in this new world of SR17 and the ever increasing strengths of going second give him a "trick" people have trouble dealing with. Before i get to the trick... here is the list currently:
Dawnlord Vyros - WJ: +28
Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 4( or Sylys)
Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
Hemera - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Griffon - PC: 8 ( possibly harpy??)
Griffon - PC: 8 ( possibly harpy??)
Priest of Nyssor - PC: 4
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Spears of Scyrah - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander - PC: 6
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 9 Grunts: 19
Now depending on what the harpy looks like at christmas 2 of them might replace the griffons in this list.
Now for the tricks. So you roll for initiative, you win you pick the side that works best and let your opponent go first. They win most likely a lot of people will still choose to go first and deploy their stuff right in the center of the table. NOW trick #1 you deploy your battle group at the edge of the table... no killbox on sides anymore! Now since you chose sides and you know that going second you start at the 10" line and your 2 heavies are speed 6+2 speed with mobility you will have picked a side in which you have a forest along one of the table edges that you can run your 2 heavies to the 26" line behind a forest, that conviently you can see through and most other people cant. The nyss will most likely be a little more central and at a respectable speed 7 with pathfinder can keep up and position outside of your enemies threat( possibly in the forest). Now if your oponent has AD theyre gonna be like oh crap hes over here so ill deploy my AD to jam him. Then you get to AD your Eiryss3 delivery squad. Now, you dont deploy them on the edge of the table you just deployed your battlegroup, you deploy them 48" away on the oposite edge. Being AD turn 2 thats 16" speed 6 pathfinder to get you to the 28" line stealth shieldguards. Theres probably gonna be a forest or a house you can put them behind somewhere relevant.
So now your opponent has to activate for turn1 and has to figure out what to do. They're in the middle, they need to move up to play the scenario game but they know they're about to be in the middle of a shit sandwich. If they stay central you get as far up the board ( as previosuly mentioned 26" for battlegroup and 28" for spears behind forests buildings etc). You just turned the board 90 degrees on your opponent. The spears present a significant threat, which become and even larger threat if they take the bait and turn their army to face your battlegroup. Now they have a RAT9 eiryss3 in their back arc who can quickwork off a support piece like a choir a mechanic, etc or just walk 7 shoot 12". Now since the spears have repo 3" you can charge E3, resolve quick work then repo 3" into their caster who has just been Hemorrhaged. No upkeeps anymore, no focus/fury and now engaged for Vyros feat. Even if you have to do a repo 3 which would incur a free strike thwy have to hit you at def 15. Tough models dont stop quick work in many situations because unless they are steady she has a 2nd melee attack which they wont be able to tough if knocked down. If they have shield guards around they're caster they are great targets for your spears to charge because they have to be close enough where you can repo 3" to engage the caster. If they position them in front of their caster to prevent that you shoot them with Nyss( or possibly harpies soon)
So lets say you need to hit a really high defense caster where you don't think RAT9+2 in the back iant enough... you can also activate vyros1 first cast mobility( channelled through hemera for -1 cost) and then send the nyss charging in their front lines followed by a hemera charge 12" threat with mobility do her work as a pow 17 weaponmastwr and repo 3" her to within 5" of their caster for an aditional +2 to hit with E3. Hemera can also make a slam or a throw to get a model into place for Imperatus to charge and side step before doing her repo 3". That means even a def 17 caster like caine you're just gonna need a 4 to hit( and you're xbow is blessed). The final piece of the puzzle is imperatus. Since you can cast mobility for 2 ( and if you bring sylys instead upkeep IR for free... still in testing) you can allocate 2 to hemera and imperatus to use your 2 mechanics for CP. You're now launching your 13" free charging 2x 2" side stepping (+2 armor from IR if Sylys free upkeep) RNG2 MAT9 POW19 weaponmaster at a caster who has no focus/fury and all of their upkeeps have been dropped. Thats 17" through a forest or cloud wall coming for blood. Even if he's gotta take a free strike at def13 arm 20 you'd have to take 17 points of damage before even losing one arm or 21 pts to live the dream of taking out movement to stop the second side step.
If they choose the " split my forces to deal with e3 and friends" they are gonna have to commit something that can hit def 17 in melee or 15 and can see stealth ( you get to shield guard to pick which one though!) Most likely it's going to have be something that can boost. Something youre probably gonna need to deal with Imperatus with IR on him.
Now you might say " well your opponent will just back up and stay out of your threat. That's exactly why I like Nyss over the infiltrators. At base spd 7 pathfinder RAT7 with priest ignoring cover and concealment and CRA ( this also works great at sniping out shield guards before you shoot with eiryss)you can get work done if they decide to just back up . Plus imperatus and hemera can both stand back and shoot. Here is where i think the Harpy will make the cut over the griffon. And why Sylys might replace the Fane knight. Arcane secretes, channel stranglehold for cost 1 then boost damage. Then use 2 harpies to thunderbolt the model hit with stranglehold on it as far back as you can. Thunderbolts can also be used to move models for imperatus charge or to put them into place to become a sidestep target or to break up any models that benifit from b2b.
Against cloud walls you can run nyss to engage what you need for feat and your jacks can see through them.
It would be hard for me to invision a list with the utility this list brings in a theme. Can this list take on everything in the game? Probably not, but it's a great toolbox to have in a pairing.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 7, 2017 21:45:31 GMT
Here is some really amazing artwork to further expand on what I'm trying to talk about. We have a somewhat standard deployment of terrain : house(dark brown), wall(grey), ruble ( black), hill ( brown), lake(blue)and 2 forests . Then in Red we have the typical central turn 1 deployment. In blue on the left we have BG and support, then more central the Nyss. On the right we have the Spears. If they try to keep most of their army outside of your threat by staying central you can shoot out whatever they put behind the wall or house with your Nyss ( ignoring the cover), the spears can stay put, maybe bringing one to toe the zone to contest ( and possibly entice a shot with blast dmg or eyeless sight to trigger vengeance, enabling the rest of the unit to get LOS to charge. while your battlegroup stays positioned to strike when able. Imperatus' charge range and side steps is from behind that forest, over the wall and then side stepping to about the rubble.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Aug 25, 2017 14:41:23 GMT
So with the information we have on the Harpy right now this is would I'd probably change the list to. The harpy can hang out with Hemera to do stranglehold/thunderbolt combo and the Griffon will be my fire and forget missile to contest a far zone/flag.
Dawnlord Vyros - WJ: +28
Sylys Wyshnalyrr - PC: 4
Imperatus - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22)
Hemera - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Harpy - PC: 9
Griffon - PC: 8
Priest of Nyssor - PC: 4
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Spears of Scyrah - Leader & 2 Grunts: 9 - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander - PC: 6
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters - Cylena & 9 Grunts: 19
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Oct 2, 2017 16:42:20 GMT
With the changes to theme I have a version of this list I'd like to give a try:
(Vyros 1) Dawnlord Vyros [+28] - Banshee [18] - Imperatus [22] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4] - Harpy [9] - Harpy [9] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Spears of Scyrah [9] - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [6]
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Post by deadlyninjacat on Oct 2, 2017 17:02:17 GMT
With the changes to theme I have a version of this list I'd like to give a try: (Vyros 1) Dawnlord Vyros [+28] - Banshee [18] - Imperatus [22] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4] - Harpy [9] - Harpy [9] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Spears of Scyrah [9] - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [6] Do the Nyss hunters count towards free models in theme? Cause they are partisan?
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Oct 2, 2017 17:08:56 GMT
With the changes to theme I have a version of this list I'd like to give a try: (Vyros 1) Dawnlord Vyros [+28] - Banshee [18] - Imperatus [22] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4] - Harpy [9] - Harpy [9] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Spears of Scyrah [9] - Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [6] Do the Nyss hunters count towards free models in theme? Cause they are partisan? Yes, they will count towards the free points in shadows specifically because it only say retribution units and they are Partisan.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Oct 2, 2017 18:00:54 GMT
Yes. Sylys is also in the list ( and elara is free) but conflict chamber is.bugged on nyss counting right now.
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